Just leave me with that guy. Lock him in, bound and gagged in a room. I will walk in with a chainsaw and a plunger. I will refer to the chainsaw as ‘Ms. Mercy’.
When I’m done with him, he’ll realize that generalship is more than building a good (or OTT) list, but using your brain in the game. That the best games are where you have to fight for the victory… and how it more rewarding that way. He’ll also learn VC don’t need to be hard core ott bs… I’d played VC weaker than that and I got bored with how tough my list was… when I play VC I now have fun as I have a clear and concise theme with them.
Why people can’t distinguish between “Tough, but not being a jerk” and “'ard boyz only unless you like swift kicks to tender regions” is beyond me. I can’t fathom why it’s fun to be able to say who will win before you even deploy, as it is than a pointless game… and only varies to the uncommon freaky dice roll (or even a few needed to change it). I gave up what I thought was hard core VC to play Chaos Dwarfs, it was A LOT more fun… and I even really like the undead too.
goes off to grumble more Well we have at least one thing in common with the vile treacherous western Dwarfs… we love a good grumble. … Make that two, we like dead elves.
Here in Italy nobody complains about Cds. At the contrary, everybody but kids is happy to game against them. Milan’s main GW shop have tournies and they allow Cds to enter. I entered an indipendent tournament and they were more than happy to enroll me into.
We re in 7th edition rulebook, as long as I know RH is still legal. Last but not the least Warhammer is a game, if do not have fun to play a new army why are you playing?
The biggest scandinavian tournament (Giantfanatic held in Denmark) allows both Chaos Dwarfs and Dog’s of War armies (Though no dog’s in other armies than DOW)
People always loves playing against CD because they know it will be: FUN!
Warhammer is supposed to be FUN. CD has enough hardbacks (The dwarfs, bulls, shakers and BT) to be dangerous, but enough weirdness (The animosity, bullcentaurs, big hats and great taurus) to be fun at the same time.
These are the things that you get when you let GW make the call on what is balanced. You need some more doom seekers my friend.
The Brain
I own 10 Doomseeker models but rarely use more than 4, it doesn't seem a fair game in most cases if I use more.
But lets get back to the other idiot, who I now know is also a power gamer, refusing to play an army even in a freindly that is tournament legal in the USofA.
Now I wanted to play today and one of the two people with fantasy wouldn't play either of my armies. So I ended up going against the power gamer, and quickly remembered why I hated playing him. He brought out a VC army that generated 14PD in a 2K game against my Slayers with only 4 Doomies, a lord, BSB and another hero. He had Manfred and 3 Vamps and Blood Knight. Whoever came up with the bright idea that the Invocation can bring back Blood Knights and Grave Guard should be thrown in the deepest dungeon and fed bread and water until they get the idea that certain things should not be allowed.
The problem is with him, not Invocation. Healing anything in the army is fine, TKs have been doing it for years, its people who bring 14PD and build armies that fly in the face of the fluff that are the problem. Anyway, with those crazy skills Slayers have access to, GG shouldn't be a problem (that double combat resolution skill is outrageous). Next time I suggest 15 Doomseekers and a tooled Slayer character to Killing Blow Mannfred (if you do, thats 5 points of combat res plus crumbling...). Or just play someone who isn't a nob.
Well when I went to the store today the idiot who goes that my armies were illegal was playing his Dark Elves (2k game 2 Hydras) vs the resident power gamer playing his Empire (War Altar, Steam Tank) army.
I love playing against double hydras with my Dwarf list. Flaming BTs mean they rarely make it past the start line :) Plus, the near-obligatory black dragon is safely grounded by the anvil (normal), so its all good.
The group there yesterday when I was leaving were saying that Daemons weren’t overpowered, then they said they were going mono god but when they described their lists they weren’t mono god except for heroes. One of the group was building a Skaven army when he worked for GW that he said he was putting 40 jazziels in and also had the Bretonnian Royal Air Force.
The group there yesterday when I was leaving were saying that Daemons weren't overpowered, then they said they were going mono god but when they described their lists they weren't mono god except for heroes.
Tbh, the mono-god lists are just as powerful as mixed lists, if not more so (KoS + Masque + lots of Ld-based magic for example). They just tend to specialise in one area. It seems almost impossible to make a weak list with DoC, though its usually the special characters that tip them over the edge.
One of the group was building a Skaven army when he worked for GW that he said he was putting 40 jazziels in and also had the Bretonnian Royal Air Force.
The 40 jezzail monstrosity will be no more according to the new Skaven rumours (0-1 choice, no longer skirmishing, etc). RAF is seriously lame, but I think the studio have already said they would fix it when Brets are redone.
Now I wanted to play today and one of the two people with fantasy wouldn't play either of my armies. So I ended up going against the power gamer, and quickly remembered why I hated playing him. He brought out a VC army that generated 14PD in a 2K game against my Slayers with only 4 Doomies, a lord, BSB and another hero. He had Manfred and 3 Vamps and Blood Knight. Whoever came up with the bright idea that the Invocation can bring back Blood Knights and Grave Guard should be thrown in the deepest dungeon and fed bread and water until they get the idea that certain things should not be allowed.
BilboBaggins
Well Blood Knights are Vampires so can only regain a single wound per turn. where as Grave Guard arent and can be raised only to full unit strength.
If he was healing more than one wound on his Blood Knights per turn then he was misusing the rules my friend.
I thought it was one per invocation and he can repeatedly cast that spell.
Plus he did cheat by adding the +1 to cast the spell from Manfred because that is only allowed for 4 units and Blood Knights weren’t one of them.
I knew there was a reason I avoided playing him. When I was on the Challenge board he kept challenging my empire with his dwarfs (lucky is was 6th edition and only 1000 points at the time). First game I took no magic and got a draw, second game 2 weeks later (he didn’t give anyone else a chance to challenge because he showed up the morning of the challenge could be made) I had 3 Wizards and he was unaware I would use that tactic. I was angry with him and made him promise not to challenge me for a month if he lost. Boy did he lose, I love lore of metal against heavily armoured Dwarfs.
It is once per Invocation. If there is a corpse cart with lodestone, that might help… but I never use the carts so I could be mistaken. Either that or he has Blood Drinker and is healing by doing damage.
No cart, just Manfred and I believe in his special rules it is +1 per invocation for Skeleton Warriors, Dire Wolves, Bat Swarms and Fell Bats (and can make those units larger than starting number).
Add his 6 PD he creates (and 2 for army) he can cast 8 invocations a turn.
Plus he did cheat by adding the +1 to cast the spell from Manfred because that is only allowed for 4 units and Blood Knights weren't one of them.
He may have had Skull Staff too (Mannfred can take 2 arcane items from the VCs list) in which case he is at +1 to cast (+2 on skellies, wolves and bats) so he would raise a Blood Knight back on a 3. Yes, Mannfred is the big cheese, but he does weigh in at just under 600pts with Skull Staff and Book of Arkhan (the usual combo for his 2 arcane item choices).
Add his 6 PD he creates (and 2 for army) he can cast 8 invocations a turn.
The roll required to successfully cast is still a 3 (a total of 1 or 2 always fails) so 2-3 of those will fail of their own accord on average.
But even then Blooddrinker only counts as if he cast Invocation on himself or his unit. The point is a full blown magic Vampire Counts army are cheesy and are tough to beat, they have always been a very powerful army. I like having a more balanced Vampire army, the biggest problems I have with is my opponents with magic items that decrease my casting value by 1 really hurts.
I probably should have pulled out the Chaos Dwarfs instead of the Slayers with their magic casting and dispel scrolls. But my Slayers had never lost to a VC army before, but then I hadn’t played the new book until yesterday.
Corpse carts add +1 per invoc, so you can use them to raise 2 Vampire models per turn
mattbird
Nope Vampires still only gain a single wound otherwise everyone would park a Corpse Cart with a Necromancer behind a unit of Blood Knights or and a Varghulf and keep them withing 6" the whole time
I probably should have pulled out the Chaos Dwarfs instead of the Slayers with their magic casting and dispel scrolls. But my Slayers had never lost to a VC army before, but then I hadn't played the new book until yesterday.
BilboBaggins
Stick to the slayers. Just add in some more doom seekers. In 2K against Manfred I would have no problem taking 9, fight fire with fire. VC players get too comfortable throwing only a single die to cast a spell. With the doom seekers special MR it will really throws them off. Remember the Doomseeker MR takes effect on any spell that is cast or takes effect with in 6 inches of the doom seeker. That combined with the banner that gives pluss 2 to dispell the VC player will have a hard time. Also if anyone ever gives you a hard time for playing slayers just go to the GW web site and print out the Dwarf FAQ. Gav Thorpe himself states at the end of the FAQ that the slayer list is still ok to play just to use the Runes from the current book.
Stick to the slayers. Just add in some more doom seekers. In 2K against Manfred I would have no problem taking 9, fight fire with fire. VC players get too comfortable throwing only a single die to cast a spell. With the doom seekers special MR it will really throws them off. Remember the Doomseeker MR takes effect on any spell that is cast or takes effect with in 6 inches of the doom seeker. That combined with the banner that gives pluss 2 to dispell the VC player will have a hard time. Also if anyone ever gives you a hard time for playing slayers just go to the GW web site and print out the Dwarf FAQ. Gav Thorpe himself states at the end of the FAQ that the slayer list is still ok to play just to use the Runes from the current book.
The Brain
If I had all four surrounding Manfred and the Blood Knights/Grave guard I would have don that. Unfortunately I only had 1 or 2 in range most of the game.
I loved the look on his face when I was measuring distances from the Doom Seekers during his magic phase.
I had a copy of the evil list with me (The list I have vowed never to play) and it would have been funny to see his face challenging units with no heroes and 18 MR1 models on the field.
My problem is I don't like stooping to those levels to play a game that is supposed to be for fun. Using lists with the amount of Doomies I would have needed are not fun for me to play.
If my CD were playing I could have targeted Manfred (he was outside a unit all game) with 3 wizards worth of fun, Pit of Shades would have been fun so would some spells from lore of Metal. Who in GW thought it was a great idea to allow Evil magic casters armour when the good side can't have armour because it's adverse effects on the winds of magic. Stick to your Fluff GW.
If my CD were playing I could have targeted Manfred (he was outside a unit all game) with 3 wizards worth of fun, Pit of Shades would have been fun so would some spells from lore of Metal.
He's Initiative 7 so Pit of Shades is unlikely to get him (although it would almost certainly get his dispel dice rolling :)). Magic missiles/Crown of Taidron are much more effective against a lone vamp, or Unseen Lurker some BCs/Taurus/ranked unit into him (that one will definitely work :)) Or just drop an earth shaker shell on his head or shoot 8 bolt throwers at him...
Who in GW thought it was a great idea to allow Evil magic casters armour when the good side can't have armour because it's adverse effects on the winds of magic.
When your caster is compulsory and weighs in 200pts more than goodie casters, I think an armour save isn't that unreasonable. Anyway, Mannfred only has a 5+ (or did he take a steed too? In which case 3+) and most caster vampire lords don't have the space for armour. Plus, I reckon CD casters when they are redone will most certainly be encased in chaos armour :)
Tbh, if this guy takes these sort of lists, he can't complain if you show up with say, double Earthshakers (slow him down to buy more time to shoot and cast), 12PD with sorc lord on lammasu, 5-6 scrolls, 4 units of 10 slaves (to bait the Blood Knights) and 3 blocks (BBs, BBs and more BBs) of CDs :). A sorcerer lord on lammasu with the Dark Mace can do horrible things with an opportunistic charge, though he is an acquired taste. Taking lore of Metal with your lv2s and spamming the default spell can also work wonders.
