[Archive] Ashe storm

lamo:

so I was wondering if a unit affected by ash storm moves in open terrain does it take dangerous terrain checks? I always had issues with the wording of curse of anraheir and ash storm is worded the same way.

Thanks :stuck_out_tongue:

Hashut’s Blessing:

Tehcnically, open ground IS actually terrain, but if you ever try to play it that way, you will be murdered. brutally. But probably swiftly.

Basically, don’t try to make people take Dangerous Terrain tests for walking in the open.

The Besieger:

Bit strange :slight_smile:

In the Ash Storm text the say you may only use its basic move and may not charge, march or fly.Why still talking…The unit also treats all terrain as dangerous terrain (execept impassable) while you cant march/fly/charge? :slight_smile:

So when the say Treats all terrain as dangerous terrain…you dont need test?

Hashut’s Blessing:

It means that if you move into/through terrain (a hill, a building, a fence, a river, etc, etc) then you must make Dangerous Terrain tests. You can move into terrain without marching, charging or flying. Ergo, the only odd part is that it doesn’t negate “open terrain” from the ruling, but it’s fairly obvious that (with all its other effects) it’s not intended to be Dangerous Terrain tests for moving at all (otherwise they’d have aid “whenever you move”, instead of “when moving in terrain”).

The Besieger:

ok thx :slight_smile:

This message was automatically appended because it was too short.

Hashut’s Blessing:

No problem. Always best to check and helps to ask people that have the book’s original language as their first language :wink:

The Besieger:

My friends told me that the need make a DT when the move with a unit that have the Ash Storm Hex.

In the tournaments that i done… all took a DT and never got a discussion about this.

Everytime i show the players and refs the book to read the Ash Storm spell.

Only on a tournament today :).

One player maked a big problem about this.

But every turn he took loooots stuff in a discussion.

Now at home i see the he was wrong with some stuff.

But nvm back to the topic :).

There are many discussions on forums about open ground

If its counts to a type of terrain or not.

There is a group of players that say DT for open ground for curse of anraheir and ash storm.

There is also a group of players that say NO DT curse of anraheir and ash storm.

I think it up to your friends/club & ppl that org tournaments to accept it or not.So long GW dont clearing out this issue.

The Discussion links

-------------------------

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?271378-Curse-of-Anraheir

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/439604.page

http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=22747

http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=93617

http://www.roundtable-bretonnia.org/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=87&id=119714&catid=16&func=fb_pdf

and more discussions on google :slight_smile:

PS i’m lucky that my groups of friends accept it.

Even on the tournaments that i join.

ok ok except one player till now :stuck_out_tongue: .

NoisyAssassin:

There is also a reference in the TK book in one of their spells to “all terrain” that speciffically mentions that it includes open terrain. I could see this supporting either camp:

- Since Ash Storm and Curse of Anreheir do not mention open terrain but the other spell does it sets a precedent and their effects do not include open terrain.

- Since the other spell includes open terrain it sets a precedent that open terrain is, in fact, a type of terrain and that their effects do include open terrain.

As the BRB (and thus wording on Curse) was written before the TK book, and since the FW writers probably based their wording on Curse, I’m personally in the latter camp, that even open terrain causes tests. Most opponents I have played against have agreed with me, but I did go to a tournament where the TO was in the other camp, so I played it that was, and I don’t usually make a big deal about it if my opponent strongly disagrees with my interpretation. The wording is ambiguous enough that it could go either way, and it isn’t worth ruining a game meant to be fun over some unclear rules.

squalie:

In the BRB, it says that open terrain is the most common type of terrain.

Blackspine:

There is also a reference in the TK book in one of their spells to "all terrain" that speciffically mentions that it includes open terrain. I could see this supporting either camp:

- Since Ash Storm and Curse of Anreheir do not mention open terrain but the other spell does it sets a precedent and their effects do not include open terrain.
- Since the other spell includes open terrain it sets a precedent that open terrain is, in fact, a type of terrain and that their effects do include open terrain.

As the BRB (and thus wording on Curse) was written before the TK book, and since the FW writers probably based their wording on Curse, I'm personally in the latter camp, that even open terrain causes tests. Most opponents I have played against have agreed with me, but I did go to a tournament where the TO was in the other camp, so I played it that was, and I don't usually make a big deal about it if my opponent strongly disagrees with my interpretation. The wording is ambiguous enough that it could go either way, and it isn't worth ruining a game meant to be fun over some unclear rules.

NoisyAssassin
The TK book set the precedent. All Terrain is terrain. Open terrain is a terrain.

Before, with curse of Anrehir, it was debatable. Now the TK spell/book has settled the argument.

It seems rough, but as long as you state it BEFORE you cast it (hell, when you select spells/roll spells) it will help the other person understand the threat.

Hashut’s Blessing:

As I said, it is written such that if you move at all, you take the test. i just really never expected any opponent to allow that on top of all the other effects in the spell, lol.

Bolg:

I say, but thats just me: The spell/rule is written as all terrain is dangerous terrain, and this obviously excludes open ground.

The spell is freaking awesome as is without milking the written text, and I personally will never ever try to claim it as such.

If I meet you on the battlefield (tournament) and you will say it is so I will let the judge decide and will see what they say.

zhatan87:

I say, but thats just me: The spell/rule is written as all terrain is dangerous terrain, and this obviously excludes open ground.
Open ground is a kind of terrain and it's stated in the rules book.
Don't forget that you make dangerous test only if you make special moves (listed in the rule book : march force, charge, flee, etc...), and the spell prevents many of these moves... Therefore, it's very often no use, except flee or pursue...

Baggronor:

Another example of FW not understanding what they are writing…

RAI, I’m sure open ground should mean no tests. RAW, its dangerous terrain tests all round I’m afraid. Most broken spell in the game… :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

nicque-ta-mare:



zhatan87
Open ground is a kind of terrain and it's stated in the rules book.
Don't forget that you make dangerous test only if you make special moves (listed in the rule book : march force, charge, flee, etc...), and the spell prevents many of these moves... Therefore, it's very often no use, except flee or pursue...
+1 Although I definitely would not say it is of no use. Slowing a unit down is very useful. Combine with rockets or hellcannon to force a panic test..

Ugly Green Trog:

I would apply the rules as follows: whenever a unit under the effect of ash storm enters terrain they must take a dangerous terrain test regardless of the fact that they cannot march. I would however draw the line at making them test on open ground, if open ground was intended to be included then it would probably read like the lore of fire spell which declares that a unit should take hits whenever it moves.

ViLe:

besides the strange restrictions on tournaments in germany and everbodys crying about magic, shooting and nearly everything… no one cares about the DT test.

curse of anraheir, ash storm and propably other similar spells or items. Everyone takes a DT Test when moving, even when moving through "open terrain"

i am ok with that

Groznit Goregut:

In the same line of logic, Goblin Fanatics automatically die when they hit terrain. So, fanatics automatically die as soon as they are launched as open terrain is considered terrain. It’s something that most OnG tend to ignore. I would do the same for Ash Storm.

Geist:

I think everyone here is over looking what Ash (not ashe) storm means when it says all terrain is dangerous.

If you are a unit that is in combat and you break, the reminders of the unit must take a dangerous terrain test. As they are fleeing, a type of movement not allowed under ash storm. Also if you take a panic test and fail it the same thing happens.

Lastly there is massive synergy with ash storm and a dread quake mortar. If some one is hit with both the spell and the mortar and they have to flee or panic at any point between turns they will take DOUBLE dangerous terrain test. One for each source.

Hashut’s Blessing:

zhatan87: It specifically states that you take the Dangerous Terrain tests when moving in any terrain. Ergo, that is overriding the usual rule of taking Dangerous Terrain tests based on what movement you make and what unit type you are. You just flat out take them.

The intention, most likely, is (as Groznit Goregut said, like with fanatics) that open terrain is ignored, but Dangerous Terrain tests are taken if you so much as touch anything that isn’t a normal hill or just plain, flat ground.