[Archive] Bloodbeards Blooded Horde [06-03-15: 2400p Hobgoblin Legion! - Time for debate]

Archive [Archive] Army Lists
21

Bloodbeard:

Tomorrow I’ll face off against the WoC player in our campaign Schädel Island

And I would like some tactical advice. Even though it’s very small armies, I could use help with my priorities.

I’ll bring:



Daemonsmith, lvl 1, lore of fire w. fireball, enchanted shield, iron curse icon

10 IG, hw/s and standard

10 IG hw/s

Magmacannon

My opponent brings:

Exalted Hero w. Warrior Bane

11 Chaos Warriors, hw/s

Chariot

Warshrine

Tactical thoughts

I need to stay back, hope to get some hits with the magmacannon and with my fireball.

So I’ll set up as far away from him as I possibly can. Put a unit of IG on either side of the magma cannon.

The need for help

Is the war altar and chariot warmachines? For the purpose of 6++ from iron curse icon?

Is fireball the way to go? Or are death or metal signature better in this game? I think the amount of S4 from fireballs is the way to go.

What should I blast with the magma cannon? The Warshrine having 5 wounds and the chariot having 4 I’ll need to hit them at least twice to take them out. Better to go for the unit of warriors?

There are more limits than possibilities in a small game like this. But would lie your input. The lead of the campaign is within the grasp of the Dawi Zharr.

22

sam585:

Id go for lore of metal to deal with the chariot and warriors. You will be wounding both of therm on 3+ and they get no armor save it should decimate both those units if you 6 dice searing doom which I would recommend. Use the Magma cannon on the Warshrine because he is going to be continually buffing his hero and might get a DP which will likely swing him the game. Lastly combine the internals into one large 20man unit. you should be very well suited to deal with his force.

I would do the following targets–

Searing doom big version on warrior block turn 1 shoot shrine with cannon

Searing doom on chariot turn 2 shoot shrine with cannon

Searing doom on General keep shooting shrine

then just mop up shrine.

23

Bloodbeard:

Thanks for the advice sam585. Can’t combine the units though. Even though we are playing 500 points - we still have to uphold the minimum 3 units rule. And since I haven’t build any hobgoblins yet, I can’t do a legal list any other way.

24

Malorndk:

Searing doom would be better than fireball in this case yeah. Good luck.

25

Bloodbeard:

Searing doom would be better than fireball in this case yeah. Good luck.

Malorndk
Yes it would. But of cause I wasn't allowed to chance lore mid-round. Hadn't thought about that.

Expanding the Schädel Island list
So I have two games left in the first round of Schädel Island, after that our lists are to expand to 1000 points.

Allowed
I'm allowed to change everything with my daemonsmith.
Upgrade existing units.
Down size existing units.
Buy new units.

Not allowed
Drop units already in the list.

So I would like some advice from the community, because I really don't know what to do with the list. I only have some different ideas.

Intel on the enemy
I don't have much information on my enemy. I know the dwarf player will properly bring a large unit of slayers (since he just finished painting them) and hammerers (because they are good). And the WoC player will bring 3 juggernaughts of khorne!

My plan right now
Upgrade on IG unit to 20, full command, GWs.
Leave other unit with 10, give them fireglaives protect the daemonsmith.

My doubts and other ideas
Should I keep the lore of fire on the daemonsmith?
Should I bring a BSB to the fight and leave daemonsmith lvl 1? Loosing a BSB gives the enemy a CP point plus many victory points. So thinking of just going lvl 2.

Perhaps bring a death shrieker or an iron demon. I can build and paint one before the round starts.

How do you bring down three juggernaughts at a 1000 points?
Not an option
I won't be able to build of field hobgoblins or wolf raiders.

Please share your input for the future victory in the name of Hashut!
26

Jorma:

How do you bring down three juggernaughts at a 1000 points?
If you want to be evil, then bring the Iron Daemon, you should get on avarage 3 hits wounding and each failed armour save takes D3 wounds out of the bastards. I have noticed from my own games that ID is the evilest thing you can take against monstrous cavalry and other heavy hitting things.

You can also easily take the charge on the ID which will likely happen if you keep on blasting those buggers, and then charge to the flank with your Infernal Guard.

Also it is almost impossible to remove on smaller games.
27

Malorndk:

Based on your battle report (everybody using some infantry, and some big stuff) I would strongly consider the ID. Shoot the big stuff like juggernauts, chariots, altars and ram the infantry for thunderstomp, unbreakable hold. This is perhaps the best anchor you can give your deamonsmith and magmacanon.

I still find fireglaviers expensive, but they would give you a response to fast or light cavalry.

20 IGs are a good choice. Great weapons are indeed good, but in no way a must. Your basic dwarfs being strength 4 is quite good vs the HE player, but it does fall somewhat short vs WoC

28

Jorma:

Based on your battle report (everybody using some infantry, and some big stuff) I would strongly consider the ID. Shoot the big stuff like juggernauts, chariots, altars and ram the infantry for thunderstomp, unbreakable hold. This is perhaps the best anchor you can give your deamonsmith and magmacanon.

Malorndk
Still, even though I also suggested the ID it is really hard to remove in small games like 1000 points, much to the point of being so gamechanging that it can cause some angst amongst the enemies :p

Just like bringing steam tank to a 1000 point game :E
29

Bloodbeard:

Thanks for the advice guys. And thanks for the math there Jorma.

Here’s the first draft for the expanded 1000 point armylist. Some things to consider:

The iron demon is really expensive. Might exclude me from ever bringing the destroyer to the campaign. And I like the destroyer model I’ve build.

Expanding with 500 points, spending 300 on one machine better be worth it. If it gets charged by something it can’t stomp - I’ll loose the battles. Having only 200 points more in infantry and hero upgrades.

I had no point for doing anything with the small IG unit.

I know I’ll be facing loads of fanatics in this rounds, has nothing to draw them out with

Empire player has a cannon, dwarfs will most likely have too. How to take them out?

The Blooded Horde 1000 points - draft 1

Heroes

Daemonsmith-sorcerer Zantromm the Aspiring

Lvl 2, lore of metal, enchanted shield, iron curse icon, luck stone.

Core

Disciples of Zantromm

20 infernal guard, full command, gleaming pennant

Thunderbolts of Hate

10 infernal guard

Special

Wrath of the Badlands

Magma cannon

Mountain Breaker

Iron demon, hellbound

997 points.

Please share your thoughts, so that I might alter the list. Felt like the extra toughness would be well worth it on the iron demon knowing it’ll take hits from juggernaughts and knights with lances. Cannon still hurt on a 2+ sadly.

30

torn:

Your right about fanatics, a khan on wolf would be good for that? Can they hurt an iron daemon?

31

Jorma:

Empire player has a cannon, dwarfs will most likely have too. How to take them out?
At the moment you don't have an answer to enemy cannon fire, cross your fingers and hope for a misfire?

Best bets would be driving full steam ahead with your Iron daemon on round 1, then blast away with your steam cannonade on round 2, hoping your still alive, good thing about ID is that one cannonball cannot destroy it. Also, if enemy deploys their cannons before you deploy your ID you might get lucky and drive close enough in round 1 to get some shots in 6"+2D6 and the 18" from the cannons = effective range of 26"-36". You would need 6's to hit and 5+'s to wound but still, even 1 wound could prove fatal for a puny goodie good cannon.
32

Malorndk:

The obvious answer to enemy canons would be Deathshriekers, Khans on Wolfs, ore perhaps the iron daemon. In such a small battle however, I would play the Iron Daemon defensively. A canon is always mean against multiwound opponents. Perhaps focusing it heavily with fireballs? Btw even though Lore of metal is good vs WoC and Dwarfs, you might find it incredible lackluste against goblins and elves

33

Jorma:

Also just a thought, maybe use the small 10 man IG block as a countercharge unit, give them GW’s, take a charge with the big block or ID and get the small unit in to the charging units flank next turn?

-Juha-

34

Bloodbeard:

Also just a thought, maybe use the small 10 man IG block as a countercharge unit, give them GW's, take a charge with the big block or ID and get the small unit in to the charging units flank next turn?

-Juha-

Jorma
Khans and GWs would all be very good. But to free any points I have to go lvl 1 again or lower the number of IG. ... and I think that will be dangerous. I'll simply ens up swarmed by the others.

But that's a question:

Should the daemonsmith be lvl 1? Uuh. Idea. With Ruby Ring of Ruin. That might be an idea.

Should I bring only 15 IG and free points for GWs or a Khan?

I think that it simply wont be enough bodies .

Or should I drop the hellbound?
35

Malorndk:

Dont drop tha Hellbound! The toughness and wound can easily change the game. Its 300 points that run around, so these extra stat is surely worth 25 points (on an irondaemon! Never on anything else!)

I believe 20 IGs without GW is the way to go. Ruby ring could actually be amazing on a level wiz with fireball himself. Good idea.

The canon can be a bitch yeah, but rather just blast it down with fireballs or Iron Daemon i guess.

36

Bloodbeard:

The locked stuff

Daemonsmith lvl 1, enchanted shield, iron curse icon, luck stone

20 IG, full command, gleaming pennant

10 IG

Magma Cannon

Iron Demon, hellbound

I’m not gonna take the ruby ring of ruin. It’s a great item, but the damage it does versus not having iron curse icon - I go for the Icon. Knowing that the empire player has a cannon, the dwarf has at least an armorpiercing (-2 AS) organ gun, the high elf at least one boltthrower. Both the goblin, high elf, dwarf and empire might bring even more machines.

Gleaming pennant is a must, when not bringing a bsb and considering just how many LD-tests I’ve failed in the last couple of battles.

Choice

That leaves me with 38 points to spare. And I see the following options:

1) Lvl 2 the daemonsmith for 35 points

2) Bring GWs to the 10 man unit 30 points, and a pistol/ napta bomb somewhere

3) Hellbound the magma cannon, with 13 points for pistols or naphta boms

4) Go 12 IG in one unit 24 points, bring napta bombs / pistols for 2 guys.

5) Get full command in the 10 man unit.

And I really can’t decide.

Will the lvl 2 make much of a difference really? The spells in lore of fire are of cause cheap.

I’m leaning towards a great weapon ssupport unit. Yet I cannot undo their gear in a later round, and would love to have a small unit of fireglaives.

37

TheHoodedMan:

I didn`t play one game with cd until now but I definitely would go for the Lvl 2 daemonsmith.

Great weapons are good, but in a 10man unit not so helpful. It could be that they only can attack one time.

The same argument against a full command group.

The 2nd level for the caster gives you a 2nd spell which means much more pressure in the magic phase. It also improves your casting total and your magic defense. At 1000 points one spell through more or less could well be victory or defeat.

38

Malorndk:

Agree with thehoodedman

Don’t lock your equipmentoption on your support unit, but bring an extra spell and +2 to cast/dispel instead. It gives you some random utility that can win a game

39

Bloodbeard:

Still not completely decided on the 1000 point armylist, but I’m leaning towards the lvl 2 daemonsmith seeing how cheap the spells from Lore of Fire is.

Now to something else…

How to take out 90+ wounds with 25 wounds

Tomorrow I’ll fight the last battle in round 1 of Schädel Island. And I really need some points after a crushing 3-0 defeat against Empire (short battle report to come).

I have:

Daemonsmith lvl 1, lore of fire

10 IG, hw/s, standard

10 IG, hw/s

magma cannon

And going up against

Lords

Tribe Boss Bnox da Bright Night

Goblin War Boss, 1 Additional hand weapon, shield, glittering scales

Heroes

Jargo da Brutal

Big Boss Night Goblin Big Boss 1 Battle standard, great weapon, light armour

*Armour piercing due to XP.

Core Units

Da Sneaky Few Night Goblins

41 Spears, Netters 168

Redmoon Murderers

Night Goblins 25 Bows 75

Special Units

Deep Cave Poachers

Night Goblin Squig Herd 20 10 Squigs, 10 Night Goblins 110

Total cost 500

Basicaly I plan to hold back as far as I can. Fire my magma cannon against those squigs, because they can hurt me.

The question is: Where to I put my fireballs? The squigs or the main block of infantry?

The thing to win this battle is my armoursaves that has not to fail me. Because he has many wounds and many dice. So I need to survive and kill a lot of his guys.

Tip appriciated.

40

Fuggit Khan:

The question is: Where to I put my fireballs? The squigs or the main block of infantry?

Bloodbeard
Go after the squigs first...they're immune to psychology and don't break (he'll use them to tie you down).
If you're real lucky you'll kill off some of their handlers with a fireball in the first turn, not enough handlers means the squigs break free and run wild among his own units