Will la tete rouge:
Probably a question that has been raised and answered a thousand times but Im trialling them both with proxy before I commit. What do you use and why?
So far, loving the D3 shots each from the BB and they seem to hold in combat sort of well - took a charge from Tomb King chariots the other day and then beat the carp out of it. Rnage seems an issue though.
Geist:
Blunderbusses are better is the short answer.
Long answer (wall of text alert).
While you do get a better range with a fireglaive and a boost to strength in combat, it all comes at some serious cost wel beyond the point cost.
First off your BS is well bs, so you will be lucky to hit most things on 5+. More than likely you will be hitting on 6+. In hand to hand you will be loosing out on your 3+ save and no parry. Given your 2 pips above striking last, good luck with that working out for you against anything other than light infantry and skirmishers. But hey it is a mid grade upgrade meaning the points wont cost you alot, so maybe worth while in a 20 or so man unit. The whole job would be to help out and protect flanks. Thats the most I would do for a unit of those.
Blunder busses, what can not be said about these lil bad boys? Sure the range is short, but thats the idea behind these guns. Riot control thin out large blocks as they get close and then nuke em when they charge you. What makes them good is reroll to wound (reason to take big block of 30plus) and that you get full armour and shield bonuses once engaged. Also you will hit with shooting on average on 4’s and if you move on 5’s. There sheer number of penalties they ignore at 10 or more is rather insane. Lastly since they number of shots on average is 36 (two ranks with characters in there), combining fire and ash storm is a good mix. You create so many shots that some wounds will trickle in, and if ash storm is in effect with the flaming banner your doubling up the number of wounds taken.
Will la tete rouge:
Blunderbusses are better is the short answer.You sir, should sell ...well anything!
Long answer (wall of text alert).
While you do get a better range with a fireglaive and a boost to strength in combat, it all comes at some serious cost wel beyond the point cost.
First off your BS is well bs, so you will be lucky to hit most things on 5+. More than likely you will be hitting on 6+. In hand to hand you will be loosing out on your 3+ save and no parry. Given your 2 pips above striking last, good luck with that working out for you against anything other than light infantry and skirmishers. But hey it is a mid grade upgrade meaning the points wont cost you alot, so maybe worth while in a 20 or so man unit. The whole job would be to help out and protect flanks. Thats the most I would do for a unit of those.
Blunder busses, what can not be said about these lil bad boys? Sure the range is short, but thats the idea behind these guns. Riot control thin out large blocks as they get close and then nuke em when they charge you. What makes them good is reroll to wound (reason to take big block of 30plus) and that you get full armour and shield bonuses once engaged. Also you will hit with shooting on average on 4's and if you move on 5's. There sheer number of penalties they ignore at 10 or more is rather insane. Lastly since they number of shots on average is 36 (two ranks with characters in there), combining fire and ash storm is a good mix. You create so many shots that some wounds will trickle in, and if ash storm is in effect with the flaming banner your doubling up the number of wounds taken.
Geist
NoisyAssassin:
I really like my small (12-strong) fireglaive unit, but they are more luck-dependent and harder to use to their full potential.
Averrucus:
I’m more a Fireglaives type: 19 guys with our friendly neighborhood Prophet Sorcerer, more like a halbe(a)rd-equipped block that suddenly pops a ranged trick…
buut, with the “advent” of AoW Thunder Warriors I’ll probably build up a hoard-y unit, just to try how they fare…
Goltor Lintrepide:
Those are very different weapons.
I prefer blunderbuss, but you want to shoot at the enemy with a full 20 guys, so you need at least 30 of them at the beginning of the game. It will probably be the main block of your army, so expect some losses.
As for the fireglaive, it can be usefull to give it to a small unit of let say 10 guys. It will give them a little boost to protect flank from warmachine hunters and it won’t cost you that much for such a small unit. Also, they won’t be your main block so, most of the time they won’t be the main target. That means they won’t suffer that much from the loss of their shields.
:hat off
gIL^:
I'm more a Fireglaives type: 19 guys with our friendly neighborhood Prophet Sorcerer, more like a halbe(a)rd-equipped block that suddenly pops a ranged trick...Im looking forward to the AoW Thunder Warriors to
buut, with the "advent" of AoW Thunder Warriors I'll probably build up a hoard-y unit, just to try how they fare...
Averrucus
Geist:
You sir, should sell ...well anything!Blunderbusses are better is the short answer.You sir, should sell ...well anything!
Long answer (wall of text alert).
While you do get a better range with a fireglaive and a boost to strength in combat, it all comes at some serious cost wel beyond the point cost.
First off your BS is well bs, so you will be lucky to hit most things on 5+. More than likely you will be hitting on 6+. In hand to hand you will be loosing out on your 3+ save and no parry. Given your 2 pips above striking last, good luck with that working out for you against anything other than light infantry and skirmishers. But hey it is a mid grade upgrade meaning the points wont cost you alot, so maybe worth while in a 20 or so man unit. The whole job would be to help out and protect flanks. Thats the most I would do for a unit of those.
Blunder busses, what can not be said about these lil bad boys? Sure the range is short, but thats the idea behind these guns. Riot control thin out large blocks as they get close and then nuke em when they charge you. What makes them good is reroll to wound (reason to take big block of 30plus) and that you get full armour and shield bonuses once engaged. Also you will hit with shooting on average on 4's and if you move on 5's. There sheer number of penalties they ignore at 10 or more is rather insane. Lastly since they number of shots on average is 36 (two ranks with characters in there), combining fire and ash storm is a good mix. You create so many shots that some wounds will trickle in, and if ash storm is in effect with the flaming banner your doubling up the number of wounds taken.
Geist
BB it is!
I was pretty much finding that out myself in the games I have playtested but as I am a crap player (Came last out of 57 at a 2 day tournament last year with a total of 7 gaming points!) I thought I must be missing something with the fireglaives.
Thank you for the help.
Will la tete rouge
Singleton Mosby:
Also, they won't be your main block so, most of the time they won't be the main target. That means they won't suffer that much from the loss of their shields.I am going to try this in my next few games. A block of 23 Blunderbusses (I have found out that is most of the time enough). And one or two small units of Fireglaives on its flanks.
:hat off
Yawarakaimatsuka
lukealexandermorton:
If you don’t do tournaments then bb. However if you do then fire glaives.450 max in a unit you only get 22 bb. Enemy only have to kill 3 guys then you lose rerolls to wound. Fireglaves kick ass in combat and range .
thrawn:
Blunderbusses are better is the short answer.i could be wrong, but i think you got some mistakes here.
Long answer (wall of text alert).
While you do get a better range with a fireglaive and a boost to strength in combat, it all comes at some serious cost wel beyond the point cost.
First off your BS is well bs, so you will be lucky to hit most things on 5+. More than likely you will be hitting on 6+. In hand to hand you will be loosing out on your 3+ save and no parry. Given your 2 pips above striking last, good luck with that working out for you against anything other than light infantry and skirmishers. But hey it is a mid grade upgrade meaning the points wont cost you alot, so maybe worth while in a 20 or so man unit. The whole job would be to help out and protect flanks. Thats the most I would do for a unit of those.
Blunder busses, what can not be said about these lil bad boys? Sure the range is short, but thats the idea behind these guns. Riot control thin out large blocks as they get close and then nuke em when they charge you. What makes them good is reroll to wound (reason to take big block of 30plus) and that you get full armour and shield bonuses once engaged. Also you will hit with shooting on average on 4's and if you move on 5's. There sheer number of penalties they ignore at 10 or more is rather insane. Lastly since they number of shots on average is 36 (two ranks with characters in there), combining fire and ash storm is a good mix. You create so many shots that some wounds will trickle in, and if ash storm is in effect with the flaming banner your doubling up the number of wounds taken.
Geist
Da Crusha:
i could be wrong, but i think you got some mistakes here.characters cannot take blunderbuss but, the BB unit can be fielded in a ranks consisting of more than 10 models. just 11 across will allow the min 21 blunderbuss' to fire.
your character cannot take a blunderbuss so you miss out on his shots. this is a common complaint amongst LoA players.
to my understanding flaming banner does not make your units shots flaming, so ash storm is not that effective.
overall i still agree with you, BB are better, but i've found them to be magic/shooting magnets. recently i'm leaning more towards a horde of naked infernal guard with small supporting units of fireglaives. once you have regular players who have been on the recieving end of the BB, they will avoid them and shot them to death.
thrawn
Singleton Mosby:
overall i still agree with you, BB are better, but i've found them to be magic/shooting magnets. recently i'm leaning more towards a horde of naked infernal guard with small supporting units of fireglaives. once you have regular players who have been on the recieving end of the BB, they will avoid them and shot them to death.That doesn't happen to me all that often. Most of the time 23 BB are enough to keep the reroll untill I have been in combat with the unit. Many players who do know what they are facing either do not have anything to shoot them with and avoid them as long as they can, or are more afraid of a Destroyer or Hellcannon for example. In the 9 games I played so far on a tournament I only lost my 20tht BB once before I got off one round of shooting.
thrawn
Geist:
First Crusha thank you for pointing out the banner rule so I did not have to.
Second my numbers are based on 18 blunderbusses firing. Which, for my brick which is 10 wide and 4 deep, I get 18, 36 or 54 shots depending on the roll. With those numbers I find I don’t need to go wider than 10 wide.
Singleton Mosby:
First Crusha thank you for pointing out the banner rule so I did not have to.But then you will be missing out on the "reroll to wound" bonus which is really great to have.
Second my numbers are based on 18 blunderbusses firing. Which, for my brick which is 10 wide and 4 deep, I get 18, 36 or 54 shots depending on the roll. With those numbers I find I don't need to go wider than 10 wide.
Geist
Grimbold Blackhammer:
I’ll echo Singleton Mosby and say I keep my Blunderbuss unit 12 wide for the rerolls (often with a BSB in one corner and the Sorcerer-Prophet in the other). Definitely worth the extra frontage!
ViLe:
well i dont like blunderbusses… range is to short, only s3 and too expensive.
You wont take much down with them. In CC you have your 3+ Save. So my advice just leave the blunderbusses at home. If you want something shooty in your infantry, take small units of FG or HobGobs with bows.
I dont need expensice S3 shots to kill light infantry. Everything else will just take small amount of wounds from the blunders.
Grimbold Blackhammer:
Blunderbuss units are a strategy but not a game-winning one. Chaos Dwarves generally win by weakening the enemy enough that by the time he has crossed the table, our units can deal with them. K’daii Destroyers and whatnot are the exception but primarily, like Dwarves, we win by “no losing”.
A Blunderbuss unit will definitely thin out a unit. Will it do it efficiently? Will it do it effectively? Effectively I’d say yes but efficiently I’d say no. They are not a perfect tool by any means. Personally I believe a good player will make sure they shoot once or not at all so when making my armies I tend to avoid them. But I have tried them and have had some success. Whether you like the image of a huge line of black powder guns ripping through the enemy, maybe you want to field them because the models are amazing, or you think it works with your play style, it is a tool in our arsenal. And they do suit our army fighting-style of damaging the enemy before they reach your lines and so have a valid synergy with the rest of our book.
Personally I hope someone out there figures out how to make them super-useful because I think they are just awesome in concept. I keep looking for battle reports for Chaos Dwarves but right now, no one is using them =(
Gunnerson:
I will be running these in my list. I plan to run them in a block of 25 in a 2x12 formation untill the opponent gets too close at which point ill reform to 5x5 to keep steadfast and ranks. The last of my blunderbusses arrived in the mail yesterday. I need to get the bases painted and then start on the dudes!
bas_2312:
I’m going to use a 30 man Blunderbuss horde in a tournament tomorrow… Curious to see what they’ll do since I’ve never used them befote 