Kera foehunter:
So do you think that they have a chance for a new army book or figures
fauthsie:
Maybe from Forgeworld… not from GW… There are some decent player made books around the net…
Warhammerman:
I doubt it. It’d basically be an Empire army with more options. But, I agree that there are possibilities from Forge World and maybe they could be introduced in Epic like Arabyans. But until then people can continue using the armybooks on the net, most of them are pretty good anyway.
Grimstonefire:
I would put money on the fact that there will be some official rules for Cathayans (and some models) within the next 2 years. I seriously doubt they would be GW studio though.
FW has no reasons not to get rules and models out for all those sorts of armies (including CD), as the longer they leave it the more likely it is that someone will get a range of models out that messes up all their IP plans. They could register it all now and bring out models in 10 years etc, but there is no financial sense in that.
Also, fantasy forgeworld will find it easier to provide variant models for their creations than to conform simply to filling gaps in GW releases and not overstepping what they can do.
Willmark:
Doubtful, If Dogs of War are going away from an actual book I doubt they will be rushing to add yet another human army. GW has been saying since 1989 and 3rd edition that they would work on a Oriental army.
Thommy H:
Yeah, won’t ever happen.
a) Not different enough in play-style from other human armies (“Army of the Month” syndrome).
b) Hard to do except as an historical army with dragons so there’s no distinct vision (“2nd Edition Squats” syndrome).
c) Too hard to do without being offensive (“Fimir” syndrome).
d) Can easily be represented with current rules if anyone is that desperate, so there’s no real impetus or pressure (“Alienhunters” syndrome).
e) Unproven concept (“Demiurge” syndrome).
Any of those things would be enough to prevent it ever happening - see the examples given - but with all five? No, no chance.
Grimstonefire:
Normally I would just steer clear of topics like this that already appear open and closed, but I happen to know that Cathayan models do exist in concept form. It probably sounds lame, but it was back in april and I’ve since deleted the pm where it was described, but from memory it was cavalry and infantry, and a hero/ lord on a horse.
So there clearly is at least an interest from someone if they’ve gone so far as to put together finished greens. Whether this actually translates into final models is another issue, but imo they will.
FW have said they will provide models for armies without them already. For those that are not clear about this, I totally agree we will probably not ever see a GW studio cathay army book. Forge world I think are a real chance.
As I’m in a mood for discussion;
a) Not different enough in play-style from other human armies (“Army of the Month” syndrome).
If we take this at face value, I consider FW armies to be more model of the month, and if FW are doing it there will be a drip feed over many years, probably with subsequent updates. So imo it’s not like they would get one book then nothing ever again.
b) Hard to do except as an historical army with dragons so there’s no distinct vision (“2nd Edition Squats” syndrome).
It depends, as you said somewhere else, there is a vast period in history they could cover if they wanted to base it on something real. Or they could very loosely take bits and pieces and cobble them together with an overall theme. I have a gut feeling there are things they could do that would justify them making an army from a rules point of view, but people would rather buy empire models as they would probably be cheaper anyway.
c) Too hard to do without being offensive (“Fimir” syndrome).
Not necessarily. If they cobble together bits and pieces they could include a lot of stuff that is absolutely nothing to do with china. So from a history point of view it could be really as different as they want it to be without conforming to existing preconceptions. Shock horror, but they wouldn’t have to even make them asian in appearance, but I actually don’t think this alone would stop GW anyway. They would have to be very careful to avoid stereotypical things they thought people would find funny but are actually offensive.
d) Can easily be represented with current rules if anyone is that desperate, so there’s no real impetus or pressure (“Alienhunters” syndrome).
Again, not necessarily. I refuse to believe that every possible rules idea has been developed already. Sure they would need the same basic weapons etc as everyone else, but there must be potential for characterful special rules and unique monsters/ machines etc that would be worth making them for??
e) Unproven concept (“Demiurge” syndrome).
Humans with something unique, hardly unproven.
Kera foehunter:
I think it has a great chance to come true !! all you need is a site !! and some hard core people
This is a great detection for gw to do
it a fresh idea that how you turn your fallen co. around
Baggronor:
I’ve already said what I think regarding a Cathay list, although I would like to see them as much as anyone. But yeah, they don’t seem a practical choice at the moment or in the foreseeable future. A forge world release would be cool though.
Shock horror, but they wouldn’t have to even make them asian in appearance, but I actually don’t think this alone would stop GW anyway.Personally, I think that could be the single most offensive thing they could do
If they made the Nipponese in Warhammer human but not Asian, I would be really quite offended. As would the Japanese customers at the Tokyo stores I reckon I happen to know that Cathayan models do exist in concept form.There’s also the chance it may have been a sculptor’s application pieces, like with the unreleased Chaos Dwarf models that did the rounds a while ago. Hopefully, they’ll be released in some form though.
Thommy H:
See, it’s a case of damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Given GW’s style (heroic proportions), an “Asian” human would probably be little short of an offensive charicature, while making them look exactly like Old Worlders would run the risk of making it seem like Warhammer is populated solely by white people. Very sticky ground, and that’s why I think it won’t ever happen.
Warhammerman:
See, it's a case of damned if they do and damned if they don't. Given GW's style (heroic proportions), an "Asian" human would probably be little short of an offensive charicature, while making them look exactly like Old Worlders would run the risk of making it seem like Warhammer is populated solely by white people. Very sticky ground, and that's why I think it won't ever happen.Yeah they're in a very sticky situation and to be honest if they did do a Cathayan army I would see fluff populated by a lot of stereotypes. This would be okay on some accounts, but it would be offensive IMHO.
Thommy H
Tarrakk Blackhand:
And where is Hobgoblyn? This thread is practically for him.
Kera foehunter:
See, it's a case of damned if they do and damned if they don't. Given GW's style (heroic proportions), an "Asian" human would probably be little short of an offensive charicature, while making them look exactly like Old Worlders would run the risk of making it seem like Warhammer is populated solely by white people. Very sticky ground, and that's why I think it won't ever happen.that seem to be the problem they are scared to ask other races to
Thommy H
get them ideas on the history of the race there trying to portray!!
it not hard all they have to do is ask
then they will not Offend People !!!
Warhammerman:
I don't know. There are a lot of different people out there and it is almost impossible for not at least one to be offended.See, it's a case of damned if they do and damned if they don't. Given GW's style (heroic proportions), an "Asian" human would probably be little short of an offensive charicature, while making them look exactly like Old Worlders would run the risk of making it seem like Warhammer is populated solely by white people. Very sticky ground, and that's why I think it won't ever happen.that seem to be the problem they are scared to ask other races to
Thommy H
get them ideas on the history of the race there trying to portray!!
it not hard all they have to do is ask
then they will not Offend People !!!
Kera foehunter
Baggronor:
that seem to be the problem they are scared to ask other races toIts not an historical army though, researching the culture is not the problem, doing something Warhammer-ish with those cultural elements is where their efforts would likely become farcical. Its relatively simple when its Europeans doing parodies of Europeans, its when they try and parody other cultures that it comes apart: cultures whose language, customs and mindset are completely different.
get them ideas on the history of the race there trying to portray!!
it not hard all they have to do is ask
then they will not Offend People !!!
If they got some Chinese games designers to write Warhammer: Cathay, it would probably be very cool for Chinese fans but wouldn't be what GW wants for a primarily western market. It needs to fit what western gamers think a far eastern army would be like to be marketable, but that would probably be an offensive cliche to actual far easterners. So as already mentioned, damned if they do and damned if they don't. The size of GW's market also means they have to treat these things with care, and while many of their small time competitors may still churn out mildly offensive caricatures, that simply wouldn't do for a global company, particularly not one that has recently expanded into the far east.
Grimstonefire:
Some good examples of why I don’t think they would be afraid of doing an army of eastern appearance in principle are all the fallen realms armies in WOTR; Angmar and Harad.
Either of these could be taken to be stereotypical, but if they made those models into warhammer scale I think they would be the start of very nice araby & cathay/ ind armies. Sure they could make them a lot more eastern/ arabian, but they wouldn’t need to imo.
The last thing they should do imo is make them models for Warhammer Historical, they have to be warhammerish.
Tarrakk Blackhand:
It would be interesting to fight against some Elephant type of thing if IND was to somewhat copy Hanibal.
Warhammerman:
I think it’d be cool if GW released an Armies of East sort of expansion that had Ind, Cathay, and all the other nations of the east.
I doubt we’ll see it from GW, but I could see Forge World doing something similar.
Grimstonefire:
My guess is that you would see them paired off as armies in imperial armour style books;
Cathay V Nippon
Ind V something
Chaos Dwarfs V someone nearby, maybe Kislev if they are ever due to get any models.
(or CD V Cathay and Ind V nippon)
So not stand alone books, but lists perfectly playable with regular 8th ed lists.
Tarrakk Blackhand:
Sort of like a “Outsider” army book that includes all these little “minor” nations.
It would help them sell the models.