[Archive] CD Deathstar!

Da Crusha:

so I was thinking about past games facing deathstars and decided to try and think of a cd deathstar, so here is what I wrote up based on a 2250 pt list.

CD Deathstar 818pts

Troops                                                Total

Bull Centaur Lord 170pts                        271pts

Black hammer of hashut 45pts

gauntlets of bazhrakk the cruel 20 pts

armour of ghazrakh 30pts

Great Weapons 6pts

Bull Centaur Hero 100pts                       151pts

armour of the furnace 45pts

great weapon 4pts

shield 2pts

Bull Centaur Hero 100pts                       118pts

Enchanted Shield 10pts

Heavy armour 4pts

great weapon 4pts

18 Black Orcs w/ shields                       278pts

Full command

so the unit should have a frontage of 6 and the BCL should be guarding a corner and be placed next to a Black orc. this unit will get 20 attacks on the offense with a frontage of 6. 5S8 8S6 and 7S5 attacks!

I was going to place bsb in the unit but I think it would actually weaken the deathstar. this is my take on the cd deathstar. please leave your own comments and feel free to change it and make it even more powerful.

*edited to include 2 more Black Orcs.

Tarrakk Blackhand:

Damn! I was hoping for a big model here! :smiley:

Da Crusha:

nope, sorry tarrakk that post wouldve been in the conversions section… in warhammer people use the term “deathstar” to refer to an extremely powerful unit

has anybody tried using deathstars in chaos dwarf armies before?

Bassman:

has anybody tried using deathstars in chaos dwarf armies before?

Da Crusha
Well, I do not think we really have death star units in our RH list. Even yours despite being truely powerfull is not really a death star. It's slow, can be shoot to pieces and avoided by a lot of stuff....

Our real death stars are hobgoblins at 2 points each :) , 6 bolt throwers, 1 death rocket and two heartshakers :o
You won't have friends anymore x.x

:)

Thorne:

And here was me thinking I would see some huge chaos dwarf orb style warmachine :wink:

Malorn:

CD RH have no Deathstar unit.

A real deathstar would be a DE army:

15 Manflayers = poisened repeaters to take down monsters and magic banner giving enemies - 2 to hit with shooting (-1 one more due to skirmish)

Malekith on foot mainly due to his antimagic shield helping the entire unit and killing the enemy casters, but a fantastic fighter and wizard too

Battlestandard with first strike banner

1 assassin with manbane and start to kill charging chariots

1-2 sorceress for more damage to the enemy, one with pearl to gain ItP for the unit.

Deploy it on your quarter, with all characters in, and revealed assassin. Shoot monster for points, and blast with magic (Some harpies try to stop things like stonethrowers)

If someone charge you, its your decision which characters get to close combat (fx mengil, malekith and assassin). You can stand and shoot, and wont pursue due to manflyer rule thus gaining 100 points every time.

Fragile against = T4 chariots, Engine of the gods, Anvil, earthshakers & template attacs from warmachines.

There is no way CD can match a deathstar like this, which exels in nearly every defense possible in the game.

Tarrakk Blackhand:

@ Thorne - I was thinking some steam powered Star Wars style space volcano.

Gar Shadowfame:

Malorn, new deathrockets will crack your DS, +its still vulnerable against cairn wraiths

Da Crusha:

Bassman dont despair we can still have all of that ;P.

I guess I wasnt clear enough with the definition of a deathstar, a deathstar is an extremely powerful UNIT that excels in hand to hand combat with the support of powerful characters and magic items.  A whole army cannot be a deathstar.

the unit is really good in offense as well as defense as you can see by the chart. if the unit is attacking it can maximize the amount of attacks it can deliver, but if the unit is charged It can also go into defensive mode and still dish out 17 attacks! the unit while fighting defensively will have also have excellent armour save as well.

                 BC Lord     BC hero   BC hero       BOs

Offense         5S8          4S6        4S6      7S5 or 4S6          20 attacks or 17 with BOs with great weapons
protection    1+ AS       4+ AS     5+ AS       5+ AS
                               5+ward

Defense         5S8         4S4        4S4           4S5               17 attacks
protection     1+AS       2+AS      2+AS         3+AS              
                               5+ward

Now, it can be said that the unit is still extremely vulnerable to missile fire and armour negating spells and such, unfortunately we don�?Tt have the magic item support to build a great defense for the unit like many armies do. Well, that is why we have an earthshaker. An earthshaker is the perfect answer to negating enemy missile fire. in regards to defending against magic. This is why I have not filled our last character slot. The last character should be a level 1 wizard with 2 dispel scrolls. Many of you will believe that this is not enough magic defense but don�?Tt forget, most powerful spells only go off a few times during an entire game and the unit is bound to get to combat in just a 3 or 4 turns. If your opponent tries to avoid the unit, the BC characters can simply leave the unit and join another unit that IS going to see combat. A banner of slavery in a nearby cd unit can also be a great help to the deathstar unit.

Malorn:

Malorn, new deathrockets will crack your DS, +its still vulnerable against cairn wraiths

Gar Shadowfame
I aware of template attacks (As I mentioned in the end of my post) but in a 2250 points game, you could stil bring 10 harpies and 15 Dark riders, and try to reduce the number of sinister warmachines, like DR, ES, Plaque mortar and so on. The real problem would be fx and anvil.

And no... Cairn wraiths would be blasted by malekith and the 2 lv 2 sorceress. With Power of Darkness, DE is highly magic offensive. If they ever got to close combat, malekith could take some wounds, with banne, BSB and outnumber, they should crumble. But yes. If the wraiths reached combat, they could be a problem.
I guess I wasnt clear enough with the definition of a deathstar, a deathstar is an extremely powerful UNIT that excels in hand to hand combat with the support of powerful characters and magic items. A whole army cannot be a deathstar.

Da Crusha
I'm quite sure you have misunderstood the definition. According to the "Warhammer Tactica" a Deathstar should exel in nearly every aspect of the game, so the enemy is unable to get victori points unless they smash the star. Most death star have weaknesses, but in an all comers tournament, people rarely show up with the right units to counter your exact Deathstar. And my example with the DE Deathstar shows quite clearly, that nearly the entire army is in that single unit.

It's not to be pessimistic. But a death star like yours would be crippled by most armies, exept maybe a VC army, with small unit so you wont autobreak due to fear (No shooting, little magic missiles). The unit could still be dodged easily though

Bolg:

I like the take on the unit. Black orcs are a standard addition to my CD list i’ve got 18 and I alway put my centaur BSB in there. the unit really can take a charge. I would love to try a centaur lord once so i’ll keep this in mind (:

Bassman:

Well, yours is a nice unit but not really a killing machine. Why? Of course in H2H is a challenge, even if charged but a lot of nasty troops can handle it in combat. Beside this even a “regular” Chaos Dwarf army, not too cheesy, can handle your unit. I cannot see the problem even with my ETC army.

If I cannot fire at them, if I cannot magic them to death I can always send 2 units of hobgoblins to take care of them for the entire battle. In the meanwhile I butcher the rest of the army. With all characters inside ity will be a point sink, and the bulls inside loose their main advantage: mobility. Yes you can move them away but you loose time in doing that and your deathstar units become just a black orc unit ready to be charged and destroyed.

Probably you would have used your bull centaurs in a better way.

A shade deathstar is a real death star. You want to magic it? You have the Amulet that make you fail doubles! You want to shoot them? You have to counterfire 15-20 skirmishing shades that fire 2 armor pierceing shoots each! You cannot march block it, because everything would be in range of crossbows… try to charge an unit with 20 always strike first great weapon elves… with an hero and lord inside. They also have 360 degrees vision… holy Hashut!

Of course they are way to deal with it but… not so obviuos and easy.

dncswlf:

I am sooo making a giant orb-like steam-punk Chaos Dwarf floating warmachine… it will be done! hmmm… counts as kolossus… flying… yep… time to start sketching!

Bolg:

I cannot see the problem even with my ETC army.

Bassman
Were you at the ETC 2009 in Germany? there was only one CD player so in that case we spoke in person (for 2 seconds).

Going again this year? I am, and with CD this time (vanilla dwarfs last year).

Bassman:

I cannot see the problem even with my ETC army.

Bassman
Were you at the ETC 2009 in Germany? there was only one CD player so  in that case we spoke in person (for 2 seconds).

Going again this year? I am, and with CD this time (vanilla dwarfs last year).


Bolg
No, I live in italy. Where/When is next ETC in Germany? Who knows..... this summer I'm probably coming in Holland..... maybe we can organize a CDO rally in Amsterdam.... ;)

Bolg:

@Bassman

7-8 of august 2010. so It wasn’t you last year (there was only one CD player, if its up to me this year there will be 2(+)).

but you did attend a ETC once right? I’m very interested in what kind of list you used and how it did.

And this summer, well see, Amsterdam isnt that far away so well see (:

Da Crusha:

stay on topic guys. I want to know how to make this cd deathstar(or not) better. what you would do? and, I dont care about dark elf deathstars.

bassman: id like to know how 2 units of hobgoblins could take on this unit. redirecting? dont forget the army will still have more than 1400 points still on the field, all placed strategically of course.

Malorn:

stay on topic guys. I want to know how to make this cd deathstar(or not) better. what you would do? and, I dont care about dark elf deathstars.

Da Crusha
Sorry... I wasn't trying to be a bother, just show how bad CD is at putting all eggs in one basket.

Swissdictator:

I am very much against Death Stars. As then some teenaged punk with a pet robot will come and ruin everything. Stupid Rebels.

I prefer “Star Destroyers”… ironically both fit the ships of the good guys and explain a tactical mindset. What these are several medium/strong/good (but not VERY good) units. If one fails, or is destroyed somehow you still have some strengths left. Plus you’re likely to have variety and can respond better to different situations.

Generally these “Star Destroyers” work amazingly well together… and you can finally crush those ‘Western Dwarf Scum’ or whomever you’re fighting.

Willmark:

Swiss has some issues as we can all see :wink: