Tarrakk Blackhand:
No it isn't - it's 40,000 years in the future of the present day. Terra is Earth, not the Warhammer world.Ok, my mistake. I thought they might have been linked. (I try not to play 40k.)
thommy H
Thommy H:
In 40K, one spaceship can level an entire planet in seconds. A single Inquisitor has the power to condemn a billion souls to oblivion on even the flimsiest pretext. A single Company of Space Marines can sweep aside armies of ordinary men with even advanced weapons - with swords and spears, it wouldnât even be a fight worth watching.
If the Warhammer world exists in this universe, itâs doomed the second the Imperium stumbles across it.
One of the themes of 40K is âlife is cheapâ. A entire planet dying is meaningless in 40K - itâs one of the most important facets of the settings. In Warhammer though, the theme is âChaos will win, but life is worth fighting forâ. Armies die to save just one world from extinction. The themes are massively contradictory, and plonking Warhammer down in 40K makes everything that happens there utterly meaningless - virtually everything that exists in the 40K universe could make every event in Fantasy utterly irrelevant.
Tarrakk Blackhand:
Thommy H is right if WF was just another planet in 40kâŚIt would be quite a quick bloodbath to have Chaos Dwarfs try and prevent Space Marines from conquering them. Plas guns against a Bolt Thrower. We know who would win.
However if WFB was the PAST of 40k, then it would make more sense as time would change and certain spieces would become extinct.
Yet, the idea that certain races exist on certain planets would mean that the WFB Elves would have had to leave the WFB planet and find their own planet to become Eldar. Same rule for ORCS, Dark Elves, Dwarfs, Chaos, etc.
No, it seems that Fantasy and 40k, while similar with species, canât be linked easily.
Hazkar:
i dont really see whf-worls as a part of the 40k-universe
i think it was just one of these early weird ideas,like all these âlostâ races in whf,which they invented and never again talked about
@che:in 40k fluff was skaven and slann as xeno species,i also saw some slann 40k minis somewhere in the internet
Thommy H:
Yeah, Slann used to be in 40K. They were supposed to be the remnants of the Old Ones (sound familiar?). Even as late as the 4th Edition Rulebook, thereâs a picture of a frog-alien with âOld Slannâ written underneath it.
Tarrakk Blackhand:
HazkarâŚI think at one point, early on, they might have been linked. Even 40k went under some revamping. Squats anyone?
Thommy H:
They were linked originally - thatâs what Che was saying. It used to be that the Warhammer world was a planet somewhere in the 40K universe. But things changed. There are still veiled references (for example, all of the artefacts made available to the winning armies of the Dark Shadows campaign during 6th Edition were clearly pieces of 40K tech) that imply itâs possible to travel between the two universes, at least, but thereâs nothing so simple as âitâs a planet in the Eye of Terrorâ or âone is in the past of the otherâ. Theyâre, at most, parallel universes separated (or linked) by the Warp.
CheTralfara:
They WERE linked, I was trying to tell you that. The Realms of Chaos book confirmed that. ROC books specifically said that the Warhammer world was a planet in the 40k universe that was completely isolated and hidden by huge chaos warp storm activity. The Realms of Chaos books covered rules for BOTH chaos in warhammer and warhammer 40k as the game systems were nearly identical at that time.
Yes, many species from fantasy used to exist in 40k⌠Beastmen were actually good guys who fought with bolters for the Imperium! Zoat were a type of centaurian tyranid, and some suggest that the Hrud are actually Skaven in 40k.
All of these hypotheticals that you guys are citing as what would ruin the fantasy world in the 40k universe, require the imperium or 40k races to DISCOVER the fantasy planet. I donât see that as happeningâŚ
Not only have they not discovered that planet for how many years (however long both systems co-existed)? but the chaos activity on that planet is just so massive I donât see them ever finding it. The sheer volume of chaos activity alone shows how significant battles on the warhammer planet are. They have to deal with essentially 5 (or more if you split the gods) chaos armies on a daily basis, where the 40k universe deals with less, and they are more spread out. On the warhammer planet, daily survival requires the necessity of endless war. It is a planet of endless war and some of most fantastical beings to ever be imagined. The battles that take place there are not just significant, but Iâd argue, just AS significant as any battle happening anywhere in that galaxy at any time. Afterall, every life is significant. Every battle is significant. Why does it have to be an apocolyptic/legendary war for it to be worth playing/fighting?
I really donât see how it lowers the value of the fantasy planet to be in that galaxy, but completely isolated⌠I really donât. If they donât see it, they canât mess with it. The old ones found it once, and tried to make something beautiful of it. It took god-like beings just to find it. I just donât see some space marines stumbling upon it.
A more intresting prospect however would be a battle for the survival of a small crashlanded spacecraft of space marines. They would be limited in number and would be at a severe disadvantage in a foreign environment against massive numbers. This is the type of scenario we can play out when keeping the original fluff.
Where is the fluff about the old ones in 40k? I didnât know they were in there at all. Iâd love to read some of that.
.nick
Thommy H:
Well theyâre officially not linked right now and theyâre probably never going to be, so itâs all a moot point anyway.
GRNDL:
Regardless of how connected they were in the past, the current versions are clearly separate worlds, connected only in theme - the gothic/medieval feel, which is the icon of Warhammer. Both worlds have undergone extensive retconning over the years, mostly to, ironically, establish brand individuality.
The WFB world is clearly an analog of medieval Earth, regardless of what its called. It is an alternate universe version of our own planet, where many âhistoricalâ and mythical (Ulthuan = Atlantis or Mu) periods exist simultaneously in some form or another.
The 40k universe is singular and while it has many âtips of the hatâ to the WFB universe, there are many differences. Slann have been retconned out and many other âgod-like powersâ introduced: the Câtan, Necrontyr, the alien Cabal, etc. Slaanesh was created during the 40k timeline with the fall of the Eldar. The rise of Chaos within the WFB world was caused by the Old Onesâs meddling and not the years of superstition and fear caused by the Age of Strife, dragging the latent chaos out of the warp/empyrean.
I guess its funny that though both universes grew from the same ideas, people seem intent on trying to recombine them after some 20 years of extensive work in trying to make them separate and unique. Why? Why reduce the individuality of them?
Also, there are âchaos beastmenâ in 40K - âBlood Pactâ Chaos RenegadesâŚ
Baggronor:
In the old fluff the Warhammer World was a planet in the Eye of Terror, if I remember correctly, and Sigmar was a Primarch. Who presumably vanished when the Emperor picked him up in a spaceship. Or sommat. Hence the old rules for Amazons with boltguns and plasma pistols.
cornixt:
I donât remember any of that being actually stated Baggronor, although it was implied in various ways. The old designers have specifically said several times that 40k was made to be Warhammer with guns. Back in those days the fluff was much more loose and free, plus they made loads of models/rules without anything to back them up. Only for 4th ed fantasy and 2nd ed 40K did everything get cemented in place as it is now (with a few shuffles since then but nothing major).
Swissdictator:
Well they're officially not linked right now and they're probably never going to be, so it's all a moot point anyway.Indeed, was it with 5th or 6th they changed the fluff? They did change, it's their property and they can do so as they please.
Thommy H
CheTralfara:
Cornixt, it IS stated in the Realms of Chaos books that the Warhammer World is a planet that is completely isolated from the rest of the 40k universe by magnificent chaos warp storms⌠Now whether or not that means itâs located in the eye of terror, i donât know⌠I think this was before the Eye of Terror was created in the fluffâŚ
As for the sigmar primarch connection, I thought it was only hinted at and something that people picked up on⌠not sure that one was ever mentioned for certainâŚ
And yes, they arenât officially connected anymore⌠however have GW ever officially denied that they are still connected? Just wonderingâŚ
Also, if they were still connected, Slaanesh being created during 40k would only add credence to the WFB is in the future of 40k theory⌠Regardless, I know itâs unlikely, but I still think itâs fun.
If you guys donât mind, Iâd like to re-route this thread into the question of:
Does anyone understand why GW neglects warhammer in favor of 40k?
Why is there no official Legendary Battles supplement? Apocalypse even has a reload!
Where are our Legendary Battles Datasheets? Giant Sphynx for Tomb Kings? Squiggoths for Fantasy? Dwarf Airships??
Why is there no official book called Warhammer At Sea? They only skimmed the surface with the Generalâs Compedium⌠Tzeentch Floating Ships anyone?
Considering the sheer scope of possibilities that are going untouched in Warhammer Fantasy⌠I am dumbfounded that theyâd waste time on over-used science fiction stereotypes and more tanks⌠tanks are everywhere today⌠thatâs not very imaginative.
Anyone know? Is it true that 40k has more players? How come everytime I go to the my local games/hobby store itâs always kids playing 40k, and adults playing fantasy (if ever playing fantasy at allâŚ)
.nick
Tarrakk Blackhand:
Nick, I think itâs all based on the age limits. Us old Farts like our fantasy stuff. 
NoâŚseriously, I think the rules are different. The 40K universe is like Star Wars. Simple tactics of which army can blast the other one out of existance. This appeals more to the kids than adults in general. 40K involves 2 armies standing on either end of the table and pumping blast after blast of lazer fire into one another. The bigger the army, the better the game. And the bigger the army, the more GW can sell. There isnât that much in the way of advanced tactics. Itâs a âDown and Dirtyâ type of game. Why not get kids playing?
Warhammer Fantasy involves units of soilders attacking each other with close combat hand weapons. Thereâs more manouvers, more tactics and you can also play it in scenarios and campaigns that last game after game. Itâs more advanced, rule wise, and this appeals more to the older âAdvancedâ player. Also, you donât need that big of an army to play WFB. 500 Points can be just as much fun as 5000.
Thommy H:
Does anyone understand why GW neglects warhammer in favor of 40k?Space Marines. They sell more of those than all the Warhammer products combined. Profits from Space Marines not only pay for every other 40K army, they actually pay for everything else GW makes. Allegedly.
Swissdictator:
I think it has to deal with our cultural outlook. 40k has guns, tanks, etc. Americans connect more with modern warfare (well⌠I hesitate to use modern as technically thatâs the American Revolution forward⌠or even earlier)⌠perhaps I should say 20th century warfare to present day.
This is in part due to our own history being relatively modern. We connect strongly with WWII and perhaps the American Civil War. More so the former. In so doing, when it comes to wargames⌠40k would have more of an appeal because of that.
The impression Iâve got is for Europe they have much more of a history and can connect with the medieval style of fantasy a lot easier. Also because itâs very much, in all reality, more like hoplite warfare that again harkons back to the history premise.
Fantasy is a more detailed game in some ways. It is more related to traditional wargames, with require a little more patience. This would probably push up the interest (by age) up some. 40k is, in all honesty, much more like a WWII-Present based skirmish game, with wacky things (Tyranids, Necrons, etc) add, in play style. In that sense it is more like a video game or movie. Fantasy is much more like a textbook.
Thommy H:
The impression I've got is for Europe they have much more of a history and can connect with the medieval style of fantasy a lot easier. Also because it's very much, in all reality, more like hoplite warfare that again harkons back to the history premise.It certainly helps. I can get on a bus and be surrounded by some of the finest medieaval achitecture in the world within 30 minutes. Pretty easy to get into Bretonnians, at any rate.
two_heads_talking:
In the old fluff the Warhammer World was a planet in the Eye of Terror, if I remember correctly, and Sigmar was a Primarch. Who presumably vanished when the Emperor picked him up in a spaceship. Or sommat. Hence the old rules for Amazons with boltguns and plasma pistols.There was lots of speculation that Sigmar and the Emperor were one and the same. In fact some speculate that the two tailed comet was merely a space ship flying away.
Baggronor
Tarrakk Blackhand:
I donât know if thatâs right Swiss.
40K sells just as well in Canada as the USA and I doubt itâs because of any historical âWarâ connection. I think itâs because of itâs pure Sci-Fi connection like Star Wars, Alien, Predator, Robo-Cop, Japanese Anime, ect.
Thommy H - Star Trek isnât really a show about âShoot 'em upâ stuff, so I donât think it applies. Also, based on the models, thereâs no apparent Star Trek connection. (uniforms, characters, etc.) Star Trek and Dr. Who and Hitchhikerâs Guide to the Galaxy are considered âAdultâ sci-fi over here because of their appeal to the adult "Higher Thinking~less action crowd.
Hereâs how the armies look to me:
Space Marines = Robo-Cop + Blade Runner + WW1
Imperial Guard = Star Wars Rebel Pilots + WW2 Naziâs + Russian Cossacks + Rambo
The Inqusition = French Catholics in space
Eldar = Japanese Anime
Orks = Mad Max + âAll traditional aliens are greenâ theory + Steam Punk
Tau = Japanese Anime + Preditor + Area 51
Tyranids = Alien
Necrons = Terminator Robots + Ancient Egypt with a hint of Japanime + Battlestar Gallactica
Dark Eldar = Star Wars Jabba The Hut Sand Barges + Marvel Comics + Japanese Shoguns + Punk Rockers and Glam Rockers Cira 1977
Chaos Space Marines = WFB Chaos + anything goes.
THT - This makes me think of when D&D started to introduce space aliens in their role playing game in the 1980âs. People complained that it wasnât D&D enough, so TSR stopped producing those campaigns.