Skot:
Hello.
I must say I have read the “latest” threads about new book and all, but I think I’m missing something that probably was said much before I join this forum but somehow I cant dig it out…
Thing is - from what I gathered Games Workshop is NOT making an army book (this is only what I understand from what I have read here - no rumors or anything) - there is some sort of other company (Warhammer Forge?) that does it… but our book have a title instead of proper “Chaos Dwarfs” - its Tamurkhan if I understand correctly…
So why everybody are so excited… it’s not a GW book just some other manufacturer idea - I don’t believe it will be allowed in any tourney or something, also this won’t be an “official” book as well (since it’s non GW).
WHAT HAVE I MISSED… I would like to feel the joy but I don’t know what to be happy about 
Thanks for help
Thommy H:
Warhammer Forge is the Fantasy arm of Forge World, which is the branch of GW that (traditionally) produces large scale resin vehicles for 40K and lavish sourcebooks to use them.
Skot:
Warhammer Forge is the Fantasy arm of Forge World, which is the branch of GW that (traditionally) produces large scale resin vehicles for 40K and lavish sourcebooks to use them.
Thommy H
OK this I understand - they are the guys behind things like Chaos War Mammoth (or whatever this thing was called) - but this doesn't mean you can play Chaos Dwarfs at tourneys right? - it will be like the units from white dwarf - something funny but you need the opponent agreement to use them... say just like with the Indy book
Thommy H:
You need your opponent’s permission to do anything. If someone doesn’t want to play against you, no one’s making them. Tourneys will set their own rules for which lists they allow. It’s not “official” because “official” isn’t a term GW recognises. The bottom line is these are rules and models produced by GW, albeit through a subsidiary line.
snowblizz:
OK this I understand - they are the guys behind things like Chaos War Mammoth (or whatever this thing was called) - but this doesn't mean you can play Chaos Dwarfs at tourneys right?
Skot
Well, it's certainly not impossible, but you are in the main correct. It wouldn't be official as such.
it will be like the units from white dwarf - something funny but you need the opponent agreement to use them... say just like with the Indy book
Skot
With a FW list though odds are a bit better since then there would be a new, modern list, which is basically GW-made instead of the interim 10 year old 2 editions out of date list.
Since GW basically wrote CDs off for a decade we are kinda stoked on this. "Unofficial" as it is, GW has finally in one form made a CD list again. And that is huge in a way.
Baggronor:
You can turn up at a GW store and use these figures, if you have an opponent. That in itself is big.
Hashut’s Blessing:
As said, it would be a store-legal list, rather than having to check with staffers (then again, many I’ve spoken to don;t let you in to just play a game, saying that that’s not what the sodding tables are there for! The shop was empty and surely the best way to advertise the game is to show people having fun playing it!) and there will be Games Workshop (subsidiary) produced models to use as well (which are current, rather than almost as old as me).
P.S. 3 editions out of date, not 2 
cricketofdeth:
About the WF Chaos Dwarf list being used for a tournament; when was the last time anyone saw FW allowed?
I have never seen a tournament that allowed FW models to be used (with the FW rules), so I fear the new WF line will follow the same way. I just hope RH is still useable in some tournaments.
aka_mythos:
About the WF Chaos Dwarf list being used for a tournament; when was the last time anyone saw FW allowed?
I have never seen a tournament that allowed FW models to be used (with the FW rules), so I fear the new WF line will follow the same way. I just hope RH is still useable in some tournaments.
cricketofdeth
I've seen FW allowed. Let me take you through some of the most common arguments:
FW rulebooks, some would say aren't "legal," but they used to explicitly say their rules were legal and they are when you consider its "GW." Even at the peak of Chapter Approved articles a good number weren't written by staff regulars... and CH rules used to be usable in a number of tournaments... so its not as if you can make the distinction there. Next is the perceived "overpowered" nature of FW units.... no one's advocating the use of the gigantic models in a tournament, so its a largely moot point considering there really are only a few FW units that one could use... but of those few units, most are the complete opposite of overpowered; most units tend to be overpriced and useful more as a fluff piece. The only reason to exclude them is a lack of familiarity and the fact that in a tournament setting you want to give everyone an equal footing for the sake of fairness. That's why its important, if you want to participate in tournaments to play as many games with as many people... just so people are exposed to the awesomeness of dark dwarven might.
Thommy H:
Well, the bottom line is that tournaments will allow whatever they allow. If they decide that Daemons of Chaos are too powerful, they can just make them “illegal” too, or impose whatever restrictions they like to legal armies and units to correct perceived imbalances. Tournaments are not the gold standard of “legality” in the world of GW gaming, and they can impose incredibly arbitrary standards on what they allow. Some will allow Warhammer Forge rules, I imagine, and some very much won’t. There’s no way to know without asking, and the fact that you will have to ask shouldn’t be taken as any kind of indication of whether these rules are “official” or not.
In other words, tournaments don’t mean squat. Are these rules “legal”? They’re as legal as your opponent allows them to be. Is it fair to bring them to a pick-up game and expect your opponent to play without complaint? Frankly, probably not. Forge World rules do have a justified reputation for being a little out of whack with the design ethos of the main GW studio, and I’ve seen some rules of theirs that are very clearly not adequately playtested or thought out. FW’s business is making cool models and lavish supplements, not providing a perfectly balanced gaming experience. To be honest, I’d probably be happier if GW worked the same way, but that’s another discussion altogether.
aka_mythos:
My point is that soooooo much of people’s anti-FW sentiment is really an ignorance and lack of exposure to FW’s rules. I think once the FW rules for CD are out, its upto those who really want to use them in tournaments to expose people to those rules to help dismiss those anti-FW sentiments.
Thommy H:
Well, a lot of people are very hung up on ideas of “legality”, and FW stuff generally falls outside of that completely fictitious umbrella. The truth is that every gaming group and every tournament sets their own standards. The fact that these rules will appear in a lavish, professionally produced book, endorsed by a branch of GW, is going to go a long way towards encouraging people to use them in their games. But will they be “official”? There’s no answer to that, because no such thing exists.
Grimstonefire:
Am I right in thinking the Death Korps for the most part just use the standard Imperial Guard rules?
If so, the Chaos dwarf range will be the first completely new army list they’ve done I think as they don’t have a book to be based upon? From what I gather there will be 2 lists in the book. One the Legions of Doom, with combined DoC,WoC,BoC, the other is a stand alone chaos dwarf list. Which I’m guessing will be the Legion of Azelorn or something.
Edit. 3 lists
3rd being Empire.
Thommy H:
Am I right in thinking the Death Korps for the most part just use the standard Imperial Guard rules?
I believe so. And I assume the Empire and Chaos lists would principally use the rules from the relevant Armies books too - so Chaos Dwarfs would indeed be Forge World's first foray into a list entirely their own. To be absolutely brutally frank, I don't think it's going to be
that good - FW are good at making models (though not that good at casting them, apparently...), not rules.
Hashut’s Blessing:
I was getting the impression that they would be in addition to the standard Chaos stuff, but in a way that would allow them to be used without any non CD units (I.E. Have at least core and a character).
KingFisher:
I was getting the impression that they would be in addition to the standard Chaos stuff, but in a way that would allow them to be used without any non CD units (I.E. Have at least core and a character).
Hashut's Blessing
The absolute worst case scenario is that chaos dwarfs become optional choices for a WoC list. Now possibly you could have an all CD "WoC" list.
However its probably more likely you will need a "core" of a WoC list with CD's making up the vast majority of the points/models. I see this as the most practical way to play the army. Since most of the time a 1500 pt train wont fit into the scenario.
aka_mythos:
I was under the impression that’s what they originally intended, but ultimately opted for a true list.
Thommy H:
I imagine it’s all one unified “Chaos” list, but there are sufficient Chaos Dwarf Core and character choices that you can make a legal army composed entirely of Dawi’Zharr and their greenskin slaves.
Grimstonefire:
I think under Rick’s plan there would have been chaos dwarf models split over many books, but only if they sold well. Otherwise it would have been the warmachines we saw first and nothing else.
Since then, with Alan rewriting the book and the change in plan, pretty much all the models we will get will be for the tamurkhan book (ignoring all the ‘chaos dwarfs marching’, ‘chaos dwarfs at rest’, ‘chaos dwarfs eating lunch’ etc variant models they could potentially release).
So it made sense for them to include a playable CD only list in there as that’s what most people will be buying them for.
A few months ago I was hoping to hear what the list of entries was for the book, never heard back about that in the end and things changed a lot since then with alan getting involved.
KingFisher:
I think under Rick's plan there would have been chaos dwarf models split over many books, but only if they sold well. Otherwise it would have been the warmachines we saw first and nothing else.
Since then, with Alan rewriting the book and the change in plan, pretty much all the models we will get will be for the tamurkhan book (ignoring all the 'chaos dwarfs marching', 'chaos dwarfs at rest', 'chaos dwarfs eating lunch' etc variant models they could potentially release).
So it made sense for them to include a playable CD only list in there as that's what most people will be buying them for.
Grimstonefire
I agree it makes the most business sense to pull all the CD content forward into a Army book camouflaged as a campaign book. But like I said the worst case scenario is that CD's are a large subset of the WoC.
The fact we are seeing the Bull Taurus and the rumored multiple rider choices indicates a complete list will be viable.
