[Archive] Dealing with the unkillable dreadlord

eudaimon:

A regular opponent of mine has started to use the DE dreadlord on dark peg, with 1+ armour save, pendant, and dragonhelm.

I really can’t think how I can take him out. Turn one he zaps down the side, about 18" away from a target WM. Turn 2, he charges a WM and proceeds to take it apart.

The only thing I can think of trying desperately to get Fate of Bjuna in range and picking him off with that - but obv he has a scroll and saves all his dice to counter Fate of Bjuna. The other option is Ashstorm to stop him flying, but again, he is simply saves his scroll for it. Besides, in an all comers list, I prefer Death to Hashut.

Any other thoughts?

rpitts2004:

200 hobgoblins with bows

MLP:

I can’t remember the rules for the pendant exactly (you get ward save based on attacker strength?) but I think multiple low strength, armour piercing attacks attacks are good so 30 blunderbussers maybe?

Lore of Metal on all your casters, he can’t dispel all of them and even the signature spell is good against him. That 1+ save means you’ll get 2d6 hits wounding on 2+ with 3+ (effectively) ward save. So you will kill him after a few hits.

Creeping Death from shadow would be effective lots of Strength 1 no armour save hits. You’d need a Lammasu though, and be lucky enough to get the spell.

Failing that just take out his mount and hope for the best.

beefcake:

Shield them with a small unit of hobgoblins so he has no chance of getting to the WM then get him with some BC’s or something. Sorry don’t know the rules for the DE Dreadlord. THe hobgobs are pretty cheap and could be sacrificed in place of the WM? I haven’t played in ages though so probably not much help.

Grimbold Blackhammer:

If an opponent is going to bring an Unkillable Dreadlord, that is one of the rare instances when I’d let loose the K’daii Destroyer.  The elf’s movement isn’t much better than the K’daii and if he flies into it, they’ll hold each other up all game.

Yes he’ll save his scroll for it but Flames of Azgoth seems designed to kill the Dreadlord as does an Iron Demon.  Just one cannon getting through can kill him.

Grimbold Blackhammer

nilbog:

I can't remember the rules for the pendant exactly (you get ward save based on attacker strength?) but I think multiple low strength, armour piercing attacks attacks are good so 30 blunderbussers maybe?

Lore of Metal on all your casters, he can't dispel all of them and even the signature spell is good against him. That 1+ save means you'll get 2d6 hits wounding on 2+ with 3+ (effectively) ward save. So you will kill him after a few hits.

Creeping Death from shadow would be effective lots of Strength 1 no armour save hits. You'd need a Lammasu though, and be lucky enough to get the spell.

Failing that just take out his mount and hope for the best.

MLP
Blunderbusses would be good, but you have too be within range which if he's got any sense won't happen. Lore of metal will still give him a 2+ ward (flaming attacks vs dragonhelm) and you can't kill the pegasus separately as the whole thing is considered one model.

If he's bringing the cheddar, you'll have to bring brie. You could have a big long line of blunderbusses along the back edge and shoot him if he comes anywhere close. Many hobgoblins with bows, as suggested, would also work, again line them up so he can't avoid them.

Take units that aren't bothered by the dreadlord. If he's using the dreadlord to take out warmachines, don't bring any. Take a destroyer and fireborn. Maybe even a firestar (18 fireborn as a horde). Castellan on a magic carpet with biting blade, razor standard on infernal guard. Skullcrackers and iron daemons, at least three.

Or tell him not to be a pratt and bring something so you both enjoy the game!

eudaimon:

@ Grimbold The Destroyer and the Dreadlord would cancel each other out you are right - in fact, the Destroyer would probably win in the long run, the Dreadlord has to fail a save eventually. Sadly the flight of the pegasus vs. ground move of the Destroyer means that he can avoid the fight.

Regarding Flames, if there was a suitably good magic phase, he would need to save dice and scroll for Flames and Ashstorm, which might leave him open to a Death Snipe from a lvl 2, or Curse of Hashut. It does need a good phase and good rolling, but its a possibility. I might have to consider swapping out Death for Hashut on my lvl 4 on a more permanent basis.

@Beefcake You can’t shield WMs like that. Warmachines have no flanks and no facing (any base is purely ornamental). A unit assaulting it can come in on any angle. In this case, the Dreadlord comes it slightly to the side of the WM, flies straight over the screening hobgobs, and uses his free 90" pivot to angle into the WM.

It is possible to deny him the space to land, by butting your machines up against the edge of the table, leaving no more than 1". However, you then can’t pivot to face as you will bring the machine within 1" of another model if you do so, so you would massively disadvantage your field of fire. Curse the size of the new FW models, small square machines are where it is at!!

@MLP Blunderbusses, good thinking that man. Not sure they are workable in an all comers list, but I could play around with that. I will give it a go against a few other lists (not just the Dreadlord) and see what happens. I am a little worried about the lack of range though. Fireglaives might also do a wound or two, but you are not going to get the volume as the BBs.

As for Lore of Metal, it doesn’t work, the unkillable dreadlord has the dragon helm and a 2+ ward vs. fire attacks.

Shadow magic isn’t really an option, and as for going for the mount - you can’t in 8th ed. A Pegasus is flying cavalry, not a ridden monster, so the rider and mount share a single profile (and all the saves that go with it).

@RPitts 200 hobgobs would probably do the trick that is true. However, in an all comers list, or any sort of game where you are using comp of any sort, is not an option. If it was, at any rate I would back his 200 repeater xbows to win that war!!

propervillanz:

Sorcerer-Prophet

Great Taraus

Obsidian Blade

Other Tricksters Shard

Talisman of Endurance

Enchanted Shield

No armor saves usually allowed along with having to re-roll successful ward saves is pretty brutal against just about everyone.

Baggronor:

A regular opponent of mine has started to use the DE dreadlord on dark peg, with 1+ armour save, pendant, and dragonhelm.
No Stubborn Crown? Wow, he's being nice ;)

If you want to kill him, Death magic is the only direct answer in the LoA. Try a Power Stone, they work wonders.

A Prophet on Flying Carpet with Blood of Hashut could dice him out but it's high risk and not a great build. If he rolls well, he might just kill you.

You can deploy your troops and machines so tightly packed that he can't land when he charges.

Beyond that, sheer weight of hits is the only way. Throw as much Strength 4 at him as possible. He only has 3 wounds after all, he will fail some saves eventually.

eudaimon:

He does have to fail eventually that is true. The stats say that unit of 24 fireglaives, at long range, should take all 6 rounds to kill him though.

Ah well, everyone has some sort of toy… :slight_smile:

Method:

Just fought one of those guys tonight.

Fortunately, he ate a warmachine, and was later driven off!

I didn’t have an answer for him either…

brotsorrow:

This is an interesting thread… I also back the notion that he will eventually fail saving rolls. Out of curiousity, how big are your games and how many points is this dreadlord setup worth?

Baggronor:

Out of curiousity, how big are your games and how many points is this dreadlord setup worth?
He is 300pts-ish. I usually play 2400. Any tournament DE army worth it's salt will include him or a Hero version of him.

With the Stubborn Crown, he is amazing at neutralising things like Gutstars, Bloodletter hordes, etc. The Crown and Pendant combo is often comped out though. Generally I find the beardier the enemy army, the more useful he becomes. Against fluffy armies he usually ends up fighting a block of random troops all game and does relatively little of note.

My Destroyer killed one at the Summer Incursion last year through sheer brute force :P

Borin Sourfist:

Generally I find the beardier the enemy army, the more useful he becomes. Against fluffy armies he usually ends up fighting a block of random troops all game and does relatively little of note.
This.

I find this to be generally true of most things in 8th that are considered broken. The irony (as usual), is it's the players with the beardiest stuff that want the beardy stuff that beats their beardy stuff (the 'scissors' to their 'beard', if you like) to be comped.

Samanos:

If he does not have the crown you can break him in co,nat (how you will force him into combat is anther issue though) i think death is the best option but dont rely on bjuna only use the other spells as well.

Baggronor:

Not helpful for CDs but my VCs find he is very, very scared of my Terrorgheist :slight_smile:

Geist:

First off he can only go 20 inches max in one turn. So hes not going to get to your full flank unless you placed yourself way up front. Having said that heres the way you handle him.

Cast ash storm on him, lock him in place. Run a skull cracker into him. He’s now locked up for rest of game. Kill him or not hes locked.

Da Crusha:

First off he can only go 20 inches max in one turn.  So hes not going to get to your full flank unless you placed yourself way up front.  Having said that heres the way you handle him.
Cast ash storm on him, lock him in place.  Run a skull cracker into him.  He's now locked up for rest of game.  Kill him or not hes locked.

Geist
the problem with that is he can still move if ashstorm is cast on him and all he has to do is get out of the direct front of the skullcracker.

khedyarl:

Yeah, as much a huge proponent of the Iron Daemon as I am - you’re never, ever going to charge something that isn’t either a brick of infantry, or is already locked in combat. Ash storm still means the Dreadlord can fly ten inches, ignoring all terrain/units, and the poor Daemon is only going straight forward.

Tossing as many dice as possible into Flames and hoping for an IF is probably the best bet.

Also: Screw you and everyone that uses that bloody monster, Bagg. :stuck_out_tongue: Last game against Vampires the guy flew it behind my lines, screamed boxcars and killed the Dreadquake in one shot, then turned and next turn (my fault for letting the bloody thing survive, heh) it screamed boxcars AGAIN and vaporised my Daemon (which had taken a wound previously but I can’t for the life of me remember how).

burock:

Yeah, as much a huge proponent of the Iron Daemon as I am - you're never, ever going to charge something that isn't either a brick of infantry, or is already locked in combat.  Ash storm still means the Dreadlord can fly ten inches, ignoring all terrain/units, and the poor Daemon is only going straight forward.

Tossing as many dice as possible into Flames and hoping for an IF is probably the best bet.

Also:  Screw you and everyone that uses that bloody monster, Bagg.  :P  Last game against Vampires the guy flew it behind my lines, screamed boxcars and killed the Dreadquake in one shot, then turned and next turn (my fault for letting the bloody thing survive, heh) it screamed boxcars AGAIN and vaporised my Daemon (which had taken a wound previously but I can't for the life of me remember how).

khedyarl
ash storm would prevent him from flying. he will still have a ground mv of 8; but will take a dangerous terrain test and also, since it will be a ground move, his movements will be more restricted.