Sort of an obvious question in the light of the name debates (see Warseer) and various other background queries, but I’m wondering because of a banner I’m just in the middle of painting. Chaos Dwarfs have arrows all over their hats and armour, and various other Chaos symbols, but how appropriate is the eight-pointed star as a large device on a banner?
We know Chaos Dwarfs have provided Chaos forces with the Hellcannon, but that was a business agreement, not a show of support. Sure, they have some of the same aims as Chaos armies (“splat everyone”) and their origin is connected to them, but they’re obviously not a part of the same army, despite their name.
So should I go ahead with the star of Chaos on a banner, or do you think it doesn’t work for Dawi’Zharr?
It might of worked back in 3rd edition when chaos dwarfs were part of chaos armies but i dont think it would work so well now. They dont worship the chaos gods so they shouldn’t be using chaos icons.
Yeah, that’s what I thought. I have a couple of Chaos stars here and there, but I don’t think it works on a banner - it makes them look like they’re worshipping one of the four main Gods, and obviously they aren’t.
Hmm…I’ve already used the rune of Hashut on a banner. Possibly a skull on this one, maybe?
I think its up to you to decide if your chaos dwarfs embrace chaos. Mine sure as heck do and sport the stars, but they aren’t big hat curly bearders either.
It might be interesting to have a ‘‘clan’’ of Chaos Dwarfs who have denied the way of Hashut and fled to the Chaos Wastes to follow one or all of the four Gods, but I think that can wait until after we have an army book. At the moment we don’t even have a definitive basis, Big Hats/masks?, so I think it would get too crazy if we had all sorts of deviating ideas and traitors (I think any Chaos Dwarf with a Chaos star would be seen as a traitors to Hashut to any other Dawi-Zhar).
I think Skulls and arrows are definetly the way to go! :cheers
Volcanos look good as well. Like waht the lord on taurus’ banner looks like. If you have the army book there is a whole page of banners at the back. If you dont ill try and get a scan.
No, it’s okay - I’ve got no trouble finding motifs. If you look at my army in my sig you’ll see that the banners I use for my Chaos Dwarf units (specifically the blunderbusses) follow a certain pattern - a number of lightning bolts and a symbol underneath. So far I’ve used two bolts and the rune of Hashut, and the banner I did for the new unit has three bolts and I was wondering if the star of Chaos would work. After the replies to this thread I ended up using a skull instead.
It’s probably better to think of them as “Corrupted Dwarfs” rather than “Chaos Dwarfs”.
Chaos Dwarf society is anything but Chaotic, they have a highly ordered, highly structured early industrial society.
And Hashut himself is only a Chaos God in the same way as Khaine or the Great Horned Rat is a Chaos God. He’s certainly not in the same camp as the big four Chaos Gods.
Although Hashut could be a Daemon Prince of some sort, I doubt that the Dawi Zharr see themselves as followers of Chaos. If anything it’s like the Corsairs of Umbar from LOTR- working on side with Mordor, but not techincally worshipping Sauron. Like the CD and the Big Four.
I’m working my army to be sort of divided between Hashut and chaos, (Sorcerer follows hashut, Lord follows Khorne) the fluff still needs work but chaos dwarves could always be corrupted by the power offered, like the dark elf cult of Slaanesh
Just a note from Palace of the Plague Lord, Zhardrach (the CD) seemed to look with down upon Einnar and the other followers of chaos claiming himself a “follower of the Dark Father.” I think their worship of Hashut is a matter of pride.
I love that! Their worship of Hashut is definetly about pride, I think the Chaos Dwarfs would rather convert the ‘good’ Dwarfs to the ways of Hashut rather than taking vengance on them for being abandonded, of course they would never turn to Hashut so it always ends up the latter.
Yeah, I loved Zhardrach’s speech when he was captured but after that he’s just kind of almost forgotten about save for a few instances. I think a shining moment might be coming up though… haven’t read it all day and I’m only a hundred pages from the end!
I think it’s cool to go either way with Chaos Dwarfs. The Assyrian Hashut-worshipping theme is very cool, but I’m into the Dwarfs-who-are-chaotic thing too. My army theme is more of the latter, with bull and star imagery, and I’m going for a religio-industrial feel - kind of like dwarfish Word Bearers. This is because a) I am a religious studies major so that’s just how I roll (we need an irony emoticon) and b) my CD hero conversion looks like he has a chaosified crozius arcanum, and I am in love with him.
Remember that Chaos Dwarfs don’t actually call themselves that. They call themselves Dawi’Zharr- literally translated as Fire Dwarfs, more correctly interpreted as “Dwarfs of the Place of Fire.” Aside from extreme circumstances such as a daemonsmith going crazy when a daemon-binding experiment goes wrong or a slaver party going too far north, Chaos Dwarfs don’t worship the Chaos Gods, they have an ordered society, they don’t have random mutations, and they’re concerned with gold and wealth rather than simply destroying everything.
The name Chaos Dwarfs could be explained by it being an insult from Western Dwarfs- after all, Chaos Dwarfs were mutated by getting tusks or the lower bodies of bulls. Others choose to use the Winds of Chaos rather than using runes, and as a result the sorcerors turn to stone. The western Dwarfs would see us as degenerate mutants, and thus the name Chaos Dwarfs could be used as an insult.
I think its fine to go either way. CD flufff has changed so much over the years, and besides its your game and your army. If some definative army book comes out saying Dawi’zharr have nothing to do with chaos then you can just point out that the eight pointed star is also the symbol of magic in the waarhammer world and that the chaos dwarfs are ruled by sorcerers. Indeed, ebracing magic is what sets them apart most from their Dawi cousins.
Just a note from Palace of the Plague Lord, Zhardrach (the CD) seemed to look with down upon Einnar and the other followers of chaos claiming himself a "follower of the Dark Father." I think their worship of Hashut is a matter of pride.
Titanomachy
Who is that Zhardrach? I'd like to hear is speech.
