[Archive] Eldar armies?

Grimstonefire:

Something that would be considerably easier for me to understand if I actually read their codex… is how their armies function from a background point of view?

Specifically, how do the aspects interact with each other?  Is there a ruling council somewhere?

I just need someone to explain it simply really.

The reason I ask is because I’m wondering about how societies split into sects could work in practice.  Whether the eldar example is worth researching, or better to look at Tau?

Gar Shadowfame:

I’ll gladly help.

Basicaly every aspect originates from a shrine, shrines are like Shaolin temples. They exist on craftworlds and accept innitiates into their ranks, and tutor them, very few eldar follow the same path whole life so there is constant rotation there. Eldar who cant change their path become exarchs who sometimes form councils with exarchs of other shrines but there is only 1 craftworld where they hold political power.

problem is, that eldar are not human and this is not rly sectarian society, eldar have vast psychic abilities, rly vast and before the fall they indulged themselves in all sorts of pleasures thus emanating them into warp space and thus giving birth to slaaneesh.

Now they follow this path system to limit stimulation, + they become what they do, but when they stop previous experiences are not affecting them in the same way as it would a human.

Loki:

I hope this makes sense, as i see it from the back ground and the books i have read, each aspect has a temple or shrine some where on the craft world, in these they train and perfect there chosen art of war to the best that they can, amongst them you have a ruler called a exarch who rules of the temple and decided the fate of the aspect warriors there with in, each exarch is a ruler of his/ her temple but they in turn form a ruling council with each other and the farsiar on how to run the craft world, they also chose who is sent to summon the avatar in time of war.

The main populace of the craft world form the guardian squads and they are split in some thing like provinces which are ruled by a prince or some such but the aspect temples have no allegiance to any province only the craft world and there exarch.

Hope that this make sense :slight_smile:

Grimstonefire:

So the exarchs have their own ‘power base’, a temple on a craftworld (having political power in only 1), but group together with others only in times of war?  There is not a ‘standing’ council for peace time?  Not that there is much peace in 40k… you know what I mean. :wink:

Also, their allegiance is only to craft world and exarch, is this is the one they live on, or the one where their exarch holds political power (if they are not the same place)?

Is any of this split religion based, or is it all just on them being in ‘warrior schools’?  Do they all share the same religion?  If they don’t, how is this represented in their councils?

Lots of questions I’m afraid.

If anyone is capable of doing a simple definition of these sorts of things for the Tau as well I’d be grateful.

Thommy H:

I don’t think forces from different Craftworlds ever fight together, do they? Certainly Aspect Warriors from one Craftworld would have a good relationship with those from another, but I imagine they have different interpretations on the basic tenets of their Path, and that there are intra-Apsect schisms. The first loyalty is to the Craftworld anyway, I believe.

Think of it like religions and nations in our own world. There are a lot of different sects and churches of Christianity. American Baptists have the same basic belief structure as English Baptists, but no one would realistically expect them to unite with one another to fight France - they’re principally “Americans” or “Englishmen” rather than “Baptists” when it comes to political matters. But, when it comes to matters of faith, they would identify with church rather than state.

Loki:

Question 1 So the exarchs have their own ‘power base’, a temple on a craftworld (having political power in only 1), but group together with others only in times of war? There is not a ‘standing’ council for peace time? Not that there is much peace in 40k… you know what I mean.

Correct on the first point, they have there own power base and group together in times of war but even then it might not be all of them unless is something major that will destroy the craft world, they seem to act pretty much independent of each other but all in the service of the craft world.

I believe that the day to day running is dealt with by the farsiars on the craft world

Question 2 Also, their allegiance is only to craft world and exarch, is this is the one they live on, or the one where their exarch holds political power (if they are not the same place)?

Exarchs are not really concerned with political power they are just fighters and follow a path of their choosing there actions might not have an effect for a 1000 years but they will for see that this action needs to take place now to ahve a desired effect in the future. The only one other than farsears that could wield political power would be the phoenix lords as the founders of there respective temples and crafts of war they would be able to unite all of their respective aspect warriors on all of the craft worlds if they so wished.

Question 3

Is any of this split religion based, or is it all just on them being in ‘warrior schools’? Do they all share the same religion? If they don’t, how is this represented in their councils?

They all share one religion but with many gods like some of the religions on earth their main god is Khaine the god of war whose shrine can always be found at the centre of the craft world, where the avatar slumbers until called to war.

Am more than happy to help you out with any tau questions i am a bit of a back ground fluff nut :slight_smile:

Gar Shadowfame:

I’d strongly suggest not to treat eldar like humans, they are s-f race that is totaly inhuman.

Forstly each Aspect Path represent a path of war of their god, Kaela Mensha Khaine. Unlike religion in our world gods in warhammer universe exist, they truly physicaly exist, Khaine is dead to add.

Eldar are not humans religion, mithology and philosophy is linked and there is no false or truth in it, it is the eldar way.

As to rulling, no exarch holds administrative power, exarch do not have individuality rather they are collective spirits of all former exarch. becomming one is not a joyfull thing, sometimes eldar who follow path can no longer turn back as thei kin does, they lust for war and their minds are filled with visions of their dead god psyche and they become exarchs,

Each craft world, (essentialy spacecraft size of the moon) has its own rulers, laws, ideals etc some are monarchies some are ruled by councils etc. The only common link are the eldar paths, warrior, seer, warlock, etc. with seers being advisors to the rulers and sometimes being rulers themselves.

Thommy H:

That’s not quite what I meant by my analogy, Gar.

Grimstonefire:

I think I’ve probably got enough info on Eldar now for me to develop some ideas.  I only really needed the basic stuff.

The tau question, how exactly are their castes decided?  Is it based on where they are born?  Or their physical traits maybe?

What would stop a tau moving from one caste to another?  As with the eldar question, is there a council to decide matters, and how much control do they have?  I have a feeling it is based more on free will ‘for the greater good’, but I’m not entirely sure on that.

Thommy H:

The Tau Castes are like sub-species - Earth Caste are born to Earth Caste parents, Water Caste to Water Caste parents, etc. Breeding between Castes is strictly taboo: no Tau would even consider it.

Grimstonefire:

How does it work with the workers and warriors? Are they all pretty much equally skilled in everything, or are the families based on specific jobs?

So for instance you’re born into a farming family, are you are capable of working on engineering or mining etc? Or do families strictly stick to the same profession?

Am I right in thinking they have no choice in the matter?

Gar Shadowfame:

there isnt anything about famili-job connection but the different castes have very different traits, physical and mental, there is not exacly worker-warrior divide. Each caste specialises in different aspect of life, so air are pilots, be it trade space ship, war vesel, or aircraft. Water are negotiators, merchants emissaries etc.

I doubt thei are skilled in all pureview skills, just in what they learn and do. And they are very simillar to japanese on matter of free choice, u do have free will but will u go againts the greater good, if ur happy why would you? its hard for europeans to comprehend sometimes.

Thommy H:

How does it work with the workers and warriors? Are they all pretty much equally skilled in everything, or are the families based on specific jobs?
Warriors are Fire Caste, workers are Earth Caste. I think, within the defined roles of the Caste, they can do whatever they like. So an Earth Caste Tau could be a farmer or a builder or even a scientist. But he wouldn't be allowed to do a Fire Caste job (soldier, commander, strategist, etc.), nor would he be suited for it anyway.
Am I right in thinking they have no choice in the matter?
They have no choice about what Caste they are, in the same way that you have no choice about what species you are. The Tau Castes are completely and totally biologically separate, though obviously they have a recent common ancestor and probably could interbreed were it not completely icky for them.

AGPO:

I believe I can clarify this:

In order to avoid the excesses that led to the fall, Eldar society follows a model refered to as ‘the path.’ Each Eldar chooses a given ‘path’ similar to our idea of a vocation, and dedicate themselves soley to mastering it. As an Eldar’s lifespan is incredibly long, each individual may follow many paths during their lifetime. Warlocks are those travelling the Path of the Seer, Aspect Warriors travel the Path of the Warrior.

During their time on the Path of the Warrior, an Eldar trains at an Aspect Temple. Each temple represents a different aspect of Khaine and warfare. Each temple has a unique style of training which it teaches to recruits. Most Eldar will eventually leave teir temple to pursue another path, but will return in times of war to serve as Aspect Warriors rather than Guardians. It is possible for Eldar to become fixated on a given path and unable to give it up and select another. Those who become stuck on the path of the Warrior become Exarchs. Exarchs are charged with the maintainance of the temples and the training of new recruits. They do not normally hold any power outside of their temple. During the awakening of the Avatar, an Exarch is selected as the Young King and forms a living sacrifice to Khaine.

It is possible for an Eldar to walk the Path of the Warrior more than once, traingin at different temples and mastering many styles of warfare. These form the war leaders of the Eldar and are known as Autarchs.

As far as the political structure of the Eldar goes, it varies from Craftworld o Craftworld. Of the three described in the background, Ulthwe, which has a high proportion of seers and few aspect warriors, is led by the Seer Council made up of its most gifted Seers. In contrast warlike Biel-Tan is ruled by the Court of the Young King, made up of the prominent Exarchs of the given shrines. Sain Haim is made up of clans of Wind Riders and isconsidered barbaric by other craftworlds. It is ruled by the ciefs of the various clans. Neither Seers nor Exarchs hold any especial political power amongst Eldar in general. These roles are more proffesions than spiritual callings.

Although each craftworld is autonomous, there aremany instances of them coming to each other’s aid. This may be to aid in thereclamation of a maiden world, to avert a future fate or simple debt of loyalty. However, craftworlds have been known to com into conflict, generally when the seers of one craftworld foresee terrible concequences of another craftworld’s actions and attempt to stop them

Hope this helps

Gar Shadowfame:

warlocks do not follow path of the seer, farseers do, warlock is a path of its own. also i’d say everything eldar do is spiritual

Vash:

the Tau caste system is pretty much evolutionairy. one species lived on the grass plains hunting for food and defending themselves against predators. others settled in cities or high on the mountains. some wandered between them all trying to trade.

in the end, they all evolved slightly different. one able to fight far stronger foes then the rest: the fire cast.

the group that lived in the mountains started to fly using simple triangly wings. they evolved a less heavy skeleton and smaller body.

the earth caste evolved from the city builders, the water caste from the wandering traders.

right before the caste system came to be. the cities and the barbarians from the plains had a large scale war, which dragged the other 2 groups along. the barbarians besieged the cities, in which all 3 other groups had hold themselves up.

right before the final showdown, the fifth caste showed up. nothing is really told about their origin, or their motives. but they told the 4 different subspicies about the greater good. and after a while all four groups were united under the banner of the greater good. the caste system ensures that each tau does what he does best with the help of other caste members.

this fifth cast, the ethereal caste, rules over the other 4… the how or why is not clarified in the fluff.

there are renegade tau, a group of firecaste warriors have set their own empire somewhere on the fringe of tau space. they have no ethereal caste members to “guide” them to the greater good.

Fallen246:

warlocks do not follow path of the seer, farseers do, warlock is a path of its own. also i'd say everything eldar do is spiritual

Gar Shadowfame
They both follow the path of the Seer.
Like an Exarch teaches other Aspect Warriors, a Farseer teaches Warlocks.

Gar Shadowfame:

in eldar codex in warlock description entry it is said that “(warlock) the most aggressive and warlike of all the Witch Paths…”

it is said that following Witch path for too long leads to being a Farseer, (as with the exarch) but i guys it only with "seers"

Also Warlock helmets are held in warrior shrines so Farseers do not teach warlocks

There are 2 other aspects of Witch Path i know of

Spiritseer-warlock level HQ that helps leading wriathguard and wraithlords

Bonesinger- eldar who shapes wraithbone with psychic energy

Hashut’s Blessing:

Vash: The ethereal caste use pheromones and a psyonic (but not psychic) linkt o control the others. They are literally compelled to follow them unquestioningly. It’s in the Liber Xenos book (or whatever it’s called, lol).

P.S. That was passed on to me via a friend, not from having read it myself.

Vash:

Vash: The ethereal caste use pheromones and a psyonic (but not psychic) linkt o control the others. They are literally compelled to follow them unquestioningly. It's in the Liber Xenos book (or whatever it's called, lol).

P.S. That was passed on to me via a friend, not from having read it myself.

Hashut's Blessing
ah ok, i didn't know that. so Tau really are just some sort of alien bee hive. were diffenent mutations provide different types of bees (queen, males (donno the english term for them), workers and soldiers)