well, first off, the intention is that they can only fire as a unit, as described in the book.
If you want to go by RAW, the rules in the book explain how the blunderbusses work pretty clearly, I thought. "Instead of firing individually.." is in there, which to me eliminates the possibility of having the option to fire them individually as a normal missile unit would.
Then it goes on to state exactly how the unit fires " A unit of Annihilators fires it's blunderbusses as follows:"
Nowhere under that section does it say you may choose to fire them any other way besides what that section indicates. Just because the rules do not explicitly say you cannot do something, does not mean you can.
If the above logic is flawed, please let me know, and we will include a further clarification in the FAQ. But this question has never arisen before...
There are other missile units in the game that do not follow the rules for archers, etc. Ratling guns and Salamanders (or whatever they are called now) come to mind as 2, but I'm sure there are more.
thanks
Matt
No it can't. Why would you think that?
Thommy H
The Blunderbuss is a missile weapon used in the shooting phase, can use the basic rules for shooting.
ANYONE who says different doesn't understand the basics of miniature warfare gaming.
There is no rule in Warhammer that prevents blunderbusses from using the basic rules for shooting. The concentrated fire rules for blunderbusses follow the basic rules for shooting under Warhammer rules.
As an official ruling from the authors of the book (Kevin Coleman and myself), they cannot fire individual shots. They may ONLY shoot in a concentrated volley, as described in the unit entry of the book.
There is no rule in Warhammer that prevents blunderbusses from using the basic rules for shooting. The concentrated fire rules for blunderbusses follow the basic rules for shooting under Warhammer rules.
Alric
The special rules for Blunderbusses replaced what you refer to as the "concentrated fire rules".
It's rather odd that you'd argue the rules with the writer of those rules!
As an official ruling from the authors of the book (Kevin Coleman and myself), they cannot fire individual shots. They may ONLY shoot in a concentrated volley, as described in the unit entry of the book.
:hat off
mattbird
There is no rule in Warhammer that prevents blunderbusses from using the basic rules for shooting. The concentrated fire rules for blunderbusses follow the basic rules for shooting under Warhammer rules.
Alric
The special rules for Blunderbusses replaced what you refer to as the "concentrated fire rules".
It's rather odd that you'd argue the rules with the writer of those rules!
cornixt
Which is an obvious assumption on your part. Players using the RH list do not need to reference the former Chaos Dwarf supplement book for the concentrated fire rules they can refer to the current rules for Warhammer under the basic rules for shooting.
It’s cool, I understand that there are different levels of reading into the rules as they are written. And certainly rules authors can and do miss possible loopholes, contradictions, etc. In this case it’s easy for us to clarify.
It's cool, I understand that there are different levels of reading into the rules as they are written. And certainly rules authors can and do miss possible loopholes, contradictions, etc. In this case it's easy for us to clarify.
mattbird
30 men with muskets all with an average level of shooting skill arrayed in 3 ranks of 10 men , in clear conditions all shoot at a single enemy 6 feet in front of them with no obstacles , how many shots would hit ? Then repeat this a 100 times what would the average number of hits be ? What is the chance it would ever be 1 ?
The Blunderbuss is a missile weapon used in the shooting phase it can use the basic rules for shooting.
ANYONE who says different doesn't understand the basics of miniature warfare gaming.
This was my 2nd answer, after my first response didn’t seem to settle it for you:
ok, we’ll add a clarification to the FAQ.
As an official ruling from the authors of the book (Kevin Coleman and myself), they cannot fire individual shots. They may ONLY shoot in a concentrated volley, as described in the unit entry of the book.
The Blunderbuss is a missile weapon used in the shooting phase it can use the basic rules for shooting.
ANYONE who says different doesn't understand the basics of miniature warfare gaming.
Alric
For the love of Hashut! When the person who made the rule tells you how they meant it why do you keep telling them they are wrong!?!
And you are seriously trying to drag in "what would happen" in a completely, utterly made up situation. Do you really want to play that game? Really? Because the complete Warhammer ruleset will collapse under the weight of its own impossibility.
Not to mention someone who just accused Thommy for using a non sequitor argument and then you do it as well? Oh the irony.
The Blunderbuss is a missile weapon used in the shooting phase it can use the basic rules for shooting.
ANYONE who says different doesn't understand the basics of miniature warfare gaming.
Alric
And you are seriously trying to drag in "what would happen" in a completely, utterly made up situation. Do you really want to play that game? Really? Because the complete Warhammer ruleset will collapse under the weight of its own impossibility.
snowblizz
Really so you have never heard of a firing squad , well I guess you are working with a very limited knowledge base
I “suggest” you lighten up, as in right now. Matt has been kind enough to respond to your posts and he has done so in a polite manner which is more then I can say for you right now.
If you insist on trying to come across they way you are… I’ll be the first to tell you: it’s not winning you any points to your side of the arguement. Because if you insist on breaking forum ettiquette, rules and the mission statement we will be discussing this via PM in no short order.
Please let one of the staff know when you feel you’ve done enough to start the FAQ and we will make a sticky of it (as it is the most widely played fan list afaik).
For all the other discussions we seem to already have an answer guys, so let’s try and move onto discussing the next thing.
It's cool, I understand that there are different levels of reading into the rules as they are written. And certainly rules authors can and do miss possible loopholes, contradictions, etc. In this case it's easy for us to clarify.
mattbird
30 men with muskets all with an average level of shooting skill arrayed in 3 ranks of 10 men , in clear conditions all shoot at a single enemy 6 feet in front of them with no obstacles , how many shots would hit ? Then repeat this a 100 times what would the average number of hits be ? What is the chance it would ever be 1 ?
Alric
Alaric-
I "suggest" you lighten up, as in right now. Matt has been kind enough to respond to your posts and he has done so in a polite manner which is more then I can say for you right now.
If you insist on trying to come across they way you are... I'll be the first to tell you: it's not winning you any points to your side of the argument. Because if you insist on breaking forum ettiquette, rules and the mission statement we will be discussing this via PM in no short order.
Willmark
My question is valid , and it makes a point, that being the rules that matt refers to in his army book would not support the example I gave, I asked if he does not understand the example since he never replied to it, otherwise one would not know if matt understands the weakness in his rule.
As for the rules on blunderbusses using the basic shooting rules and the concentrated fire rule I never "asked" for any clarification from matt I never referenced matts army book my references were made to the Warhammer rule book, matt inserted his army list into that part my discussion.
The point I make is that players do not need to reference the old concentrated fire rules that the basic rules for shooting under the current Warhammer rules can be used to resolve shooting with blunderbusses.
The point I make is that players do not need to reference the old concentrated fire rules that the basic rules for shooting under the current Warhammer rules can be used to resolve shooting with blunderbusses.
Alric
That is good to know, seeing as there's probably increasingly few people that know about that. It's always best to revert to the standard rulebook with any fanlist, rather than to an OOP book or hard to find pdf.
A valid point Alric. Seems overall everyone actually agrees with each other in the end anyway!? Just using different examples.
Anyone who wishes to debate the regular Blunderbuss rules should do so in a different thread from now on. We don;t want to clutter this thread up with something unrelated.
@ Alric. The basic rules for shooting apply to models rolling to hit using BS, wound etc in a standard way, and are superceded by the additional special rules of any unit. Any gamer will tell you this.
Appart from your incredible arrogance in stating that, despite the accumulated decades of gaming experience and numerous tournament successes of the people who’ve responded to this thread, you are apparently the only one who understands the fundamentals of wargaming, your general posting style is trollish in the extreme.
Rather than counter the valid counter arguments made to your posts, you slavishly repeat your initial dogma and throw accusations at those like Thommy and the others who disagree with you.
As for the rules on blunderbusses using the basic shooting rules and the concentrated fire rule I never “asked” for any clarification from matt I never referenced matts army book my references were made to the Warhammer rule book, matt inserted his army list into that part my discussion.
Alric
This is an FAQ thread for Matt’s IndyGT list, not “your discussion.” Nobody ever “asked” you to drag it massively off-topic. Matt and the others have been very patient with you. More than I am willing to be.
The staff are already discussing issuing you with an official warning. I suggest you do not give them any more reason and attempt to occasionally listen to what the other members have to say. Persistent trolling is not just unpleasant and dull reading, it is far more importantly a massive waste of our time.
Sorry - I was actually aware that we were talking about the RH blunderbuss rules, which is why I was tyring to argue “around” whatever else was going on. I’m not sure how we got onto it, but I think maybe Alric responded to something I posted about it a while ago?
Anyway, apologies for dragging things off topic. I wasn’t expecting the level of escalation that occured, because the situation seemed very cut and dry to me (as it does to others).