cornixt:
It seems clear to me that the nicest way would be to do it like this:
WoH page 1, German translation of page 1 with no images and limited formatting,
WoH page 2, German translation of page 2 with no images,
etc
Basically it is inserting a plain white page with german text after every English WoH page.
It makes the process simple, the German text can be resized if needed, people can double-check the original if the translation isn’t 100% (even the English version s a bit iffy in places). We won’t need a German speaker who can use particular software, and we can add disclaimers that the translation isn’t approved by CDO.
Grimstonefire:
@cornixt
As I see it the moment anything is translated in such a way that it cannot be proof read by the WoH crew, the whole thing is no longer approved by CDO. This saves us being misrepresented, even if it’s just by accident.
Hence why any reference to CDO would have to be removed (except a disclaimer). We’d also need to look carefully into which articles could be done like this. Some advertisements may not be suitable.
Another issue would be making sure that work and photos were correctly labelled to the right person, something we would hope would be done correctly.
There are a few issues the staff will need to discuss on this, the time involved, what to allow etc. Perhaps it would be best to wait on this glorin and we will contact you soon?
Willmark:
From the MOCK UP PERSPECTIVE ONLY I will have something up later tonight (Tuesday am for those on the other side of the pond) showing what would be involved.
Grim is right too this is as much a Staff discussion as anything else.
Willmark:
Now bear in mind I used a transfer application so while it is technically possible I have absolutely no idea if the language is correct, let alone the syntax. It worked OK, but it was not the easiest thing to do.
The other issue is who would do the work of converting the entire WoH Issue text into the respective languages?
Plus there is the work effort: Just how many people are we talking about here that would want this is German and Italian respectively…
Plus I forgot to change the issue and page information on the bottom, I dont speak either langauge so that is an example of just how easy it woudl be to miss something like that.
Servius:
well I will mention this… While it may be nice… Most Germans and even Italians speak very good english with rare exceptions… Mainly do to their Secondary schooling usually requiring 2 foreign languages with English being pretty much required in most schools.
Having said that… If it is decided we are going to do this… We should really look into thinking about adding on a Native Speaker of whatever language we do as I have High School German and I notice quite a few grammar errors in that text.
Alan the evil:
Most Germans and even Italians speak very good english with rare exceptions
servius... have you ever been in italy? There are a LOTS of exception. ;)
about translation in other languages:
I don't think it's necessary: I'm start to suppose that we are just Bassman and me posting from Italy... but it could be a good publicity for the site.
Unfortunatly I'm not able to help because I'm not so use neither to use pc nor to do translations... (I always need some minutes even for these short messages!!)
Willmark:
Updated with an Italian one 
for reference.
glorin:
@Willmark
TC, must unfortunately say the German text is quite difficult to understand. It hapert at some expressions, which there are in English, but not in German. The text must be urgently improved. If it can try gladly tomorrow improve, for it however again the English Verson bräuchte at the best. (Around some disengage correctly into German to convert.)
@Zanko (“I would help translate the WoH!”
Zanko that is nice and I would be pleased if you with would translate, should we permission get.
@Servius
Naturally you could read quite many well the English. Since newest also English instruction begins at the second class with us. But many cannot speak yet so well English, which they dare to part-white such quite difficult texts ran. In addition they are written anyway repeatedly read if it in the homeland language, or are translated.
Thommy H:
TC, must unfortunately say the German text is quite difficult to understand. It hapert at some expressions, which there are in English, but not in German. The text must be urgently improved. If it can try gladly tomorrow improve, for it however again the English Verson bräuchte at the best. (Around some disengage correctly into German to convert.)
Well, with respect, now you know how we feel!
I don't want to insult anyone here, and I applaud the sentiment of wanting to translate WoH into other languages, but obviously this isn't going to work unless everyone involved is fluent in both languages. It's no good the English speakers trying to use electronic translation in the articles, while the German speakers use electronic translation to post comments about how bad the electronic translation is. If nothing else, I don't feel comfortable having writing with my name on it being read by German people who'll think I'm some kind of moron who can't string two words together.
So, please, if this is going to happen, can it be done by people who are totally comfortable working in both languages? Otherwise it's a lost cause.
glorin:
Well, with respect, now you know how we feel!
Had to laugh genuine with this sentence! ^^
I don't want to insult anyone here, and I applaud the sentiment of wanting to translate WoH into other languages, but obviously this isn't going to work unless everyone involved is fluent in both languages. It's no good the English speakers trying to use electronic translation in the articles, while the German speakers use electronic translation to post comments about how bad the electronic translation is. If nothing else, I don't feel comfortable having writing with my name on it being read by German people who'll think I'm some kind of moron who can't string two words together.
So, please, if this is going to happen, can it be done by people who are totally comfortable working in both languages? Otherwise it's a lost cause.
Do not believe me I will for it please to translate to be allowed, if I could not do it. I must admit, which is my English in writing not too super. (From there it I take for the fast also always Yahoo over to answer.) But mine reads understanding is more than good in English. From there I believe to be in the situation to transform English the text into German well. (German I speak also quite well! Finally is my native language)
snowblizz:
I’m going to have to go with the “I don’t feel this is such a great idea”. Without a skilled international staff that can do the translation it won’t work. As Thommy correctly notes machine-translation is rather awkward and it is usually considered a right of the author to be correctly translated.
And then which languages do you pick, we have a request for German, what if the Spanish want a local version, and maybe I’d like to get in either or both of my native languages?
I’ve studied and learnt 6 (technically 4) languages thus far, not all of them very good mind. My French, German and Spanish would never pass muster (from lack of use and need). So I continually come to the point where I feel, “just learn English ok, I did”.
I tend to be annoyed by GW’s insistence on translating stuff, it only leads to confusion down the line, e.g. there are a lot of instances where translators were making interpretations only the studio should be doing. And there was a lot of cool stuff coming out of the regional studios as well that never made it to a larger public. That annoyed me as well. I know this isn’t quite the same obviously, but it shows the problems of regionalizing.
I know it sounds sorta horrible (especially for those who are European, but it isn’t quite meant that way) but I’m sort of a One Hobby, One Language kind of guy.
Ishkur Cinderhat:
Thommy hat aber recht. Ganz ehrlich.
But mine reads understanding is more than good in English. From there I believe to be in the situation to transform English the text into German well. (German I speak also quite well! Finally is my native language)
glorin
That I am sure most believe you… but it’s impossible to have a sensible discussion about articles etc. with you if your responses are all computer-translated. Too much of these words make no sense. And after a while it’s annoying because so much of your original meaning gets lost.
Maybe in 10 years online translations will have the quality needed for such an attitude, but right now yahoo just isn’t good enough.
“It hapert at some expressions” as you would say! x.x
I also don’t understand how you want to afford to put so much time into translating the English texts of WOH into German if you are not even willing to put some time into translating your own posts into English. It just doesn’t really show that you have the time, will and energy to spare for such a huge project.
But of course that’s just my personal impression.
two_heads_talking:
Hving read online translations from russian to english/ japanese to english/ chinese to english/ vietnamese to english/ korean to english and now german to english, I have to admit that online translators like bablefish and the like are just no good. I’ve followed this thread, and I’ll admit I ahve no idea what Glorin is actually saying. I hate to say it, but I’m completely lost here…
glorin:
TC, I’m sorry with on-line translate�?� But I poste here in each case between door and fishing rod. Write in a half hour my next examination and be from there much at time pressure. If I can take myself however the time, when I want can I also on one day 2Stunden a project dedicate, make myself I this several days am the translation soon finished�?�
Tarrakk Blackhand:
I’m just wondering how “Rotten” the machine-translation is that it couldn’t have the words re-arranged so that they make sense.
There’s going to be some “problems” with translating certain words or trying to get their meaning…that’s a given.
When I use to write to pen pals in other languages in the 1990’s I constantly ran across sentances that read in reverse from English, like “To the store I am going” as opposed to “I am going to the store”, but it wasn’t difficult to fix this problem when I “Translated” it for myself.
Thommy - I can understand your feelings on the translation and the “True” meaning of your story getting lost, but keep in mind that these guys don’t want to loose your ideas, and usually they will be @ 90 - 95% accurate to what you originally intended. I doubt they’re going to make you look (or read) like a 6 year old kid. At worst, it’s going to have some differences in “Flow”, but I doubt it will stray off the path too much.
Anyway, with Glorin and Zanko working on it, I’m sure it will be OK.
Thommy H:
Thommy - I can understand your feelings on the translation and the "True" meaning of your story getting lost, but keep in mind that these guys don't want to loose your ideas, and usually they will be @ 90 - 95% accurate to what you originally intended. I doubt they're going to make you look (or read) like a 6 year old kid. At worst, it's going to have some differences in "Flow", but I doubt it will stray off the path too much.
If I can't have control over something I put my name to, then I don't want my name put to it. I understand that this will be done with the best of intentions, and I know everyone involved will try their best, but I need to know what's going to be posted as my work before I let someone put "by Thommy H" at the top. And, since I can't read German, and there's no one doing this that I completely trust to preserve what I wrote, then I don't particularly want it to happen. If I'd signed a contract, if this was an editor from a publishing company, or if this was a professional, skilled translator hired by that publishing company this would be different - but I don't want some guy on the internet with only a basic grasp of English translating something I spent time writing the way I wanted.
No disrespect to Glorin here, whose English is infinitely better than my German and who is trying to do something good and admirable, but if this is to be done then it has to be done right, by people who know what they're doing, not just enthusiastic amateurs.
Sojourn:
Glorin, I respect your efforts and intentions, but I really see this as a lost cause and something CDO just cannot endorse.
What Thommy is saying is true, authors should not want to/have to put their name on a translation they have no clue how it reads. Even at 90-95%, it’s not Thommy’s work. How many times have you seen funny things online that show the ‘slogan translations’ from English to another language or vice versa? This is something that came up in another post about ‘foul language’ in a GW store; it’s not always the word that is used so much as the intention. A mis-translation, or combination of different words could mean something entirely different in German; changing and adjusting for this would alter Thommy’s work. Additionally, it is still his property as far as I’m aware and does not have to grant permission.
another point made that is pivotal is that why would we only translate German and Italian? why not French? why not Spanish? why not why not?
And online translators always make a mess of things, quite literally translating one word at a time, with no adjustment for syntax. It’s noticeable in your posts; but please understand we appreciate you posting here, however, on such a large scale project, where there may be distribution of other people’s work, casual translation will not suffice.
on CDO, your posts are welcome. I just don’t think that a translation of WOH is justifiable.
Willmark:
Yeah guys I don’t see this happening for a number of reasons but here is the biggest, I would have to put in even more time into this, which is something I’m already short on. In short great idea but again, I don’t see it happening.
Thommy H:
My feeling is that the ability to do this and the need to do this go hand in hand. If we had a huge cadre of German/Spanish/Italian/French/whatever posters here who wanted to read WoH in their native language, then this would be an initiative that would be both necessary and viable: the large number of non-English speakers would want to do it, and their desire to do it would make the effort justifiable.
As it is, we just have one person who wants to do this as a personal project. Again, Glorin, your aims are laudable and I envy your ability to read a foreign language well enough to enjoy a webzine written entirely in it, but this needs a huge investment of time and effort from everyone involved, and unless we have the means and motive to do that, it’s not going to be feasible.
Tarrakk Blackhand:
I’d say let him try WoH#1. If he’s actually dedicated to finishing the entire magazine in all 20+ pages, then you have 1 German mag. If he burns out and looses interest after P#1, then you still haven’t lost anything.
for reference.