Nicodemus:
I think HB summed it up nicely above.
A flier gives some kind of focus, rather than making it a contest to make anything at all. By the same token, a limited limit base size would also be a good idea, as we’ve seen with other contests.
Thommy H:
It would still be a proscribed list though - and base size would be limited by the actual base size of the unit, as always. It just seems a shame to rule out Giants, for example, since the WF list explicitly identifies the Siege Giant as a Chaos Dwarf creation. And Exalted Greater Daemons (two of them anyway). I just find it a bit arbitrary. Why would a Chaos Dwarf Lord of Change be okay, but not a Chaos Dwarf Great Unclean One? Or a Griffon but not a Hydra?
Nicodemus:
Good points Thommy, although it would open it up to making anything, which is your point. I don’t see anything wrong with limiting it to a specific type (i.e. flier), just so that there’s some focus.
I’d like to see it be a more level playing field with a few simple guidelines, like giving a limit of a maximum base size instead of ‘any size at all’.
Of course we could all just forget about the SoM stuff and just go straight for the land train, or maybe just a good replacement for the Dreadquake Mortar Ogre slave 
Thommy H:
Well it’s not “anything” - it’s one of 45 specific units. I just don’t see why we’d further arbitrarily limit that to “any of the 45 that have the Fly special rule” - especially since flight is not really anything to do with Chaos Dwarfs, and I think the only reason it’s been chosen here is because someone mentioned Gyrocopters! I can think of loads more things to make with the non-flyers in SoM than the fliers, to be honest.
Baraz Gorechain:
That —^
This message was automatically appended because it was too short.
Nicodemus:
especially since flight is not really anything to do with Chaos Dwarfs,Excluding the two staple monsters we have - the Great Taurus and the Lammasu ;)
Thommy H
I can think of loads more things to make with the non-flyers in SoM than the fliers, to be honest.And the fact that you have loads of ideas in mind isn't biasing your preference at all is it ;P
Thommy H
Borador:
Somewhere I agree with thommy, we have just two flying mounts so flying seems a bit off. On the other hand, I like flying machines, already made some prototypes, so I could be having an advantage here haha.
IMO, we maybe should try finding a few alternative options, since this is not really getting anywhere.
I must say I liked the idea of a replacement ogre quite a lot. Few issues there though: 1. Someone could in fact “like” the ogre, making it useless to create a replacement and thus not encouraging him/her to enter.
2. It requires sculpting, and quite a bit of it. Some people are not that skilled at sculpting (I consider myself to be one of those) and have a smaller chance of getting a vote or two if the competition is “conversion/sculpting heavy”.
Other options could be:
1. Make a fimir, everyone loves those but we get the same issue as stated in my second point above.
2. Pick 1 single unit which can be both flying or not from the SoM list and we will have to create that.
3. Ditch the SoM list: create a chaos dwarf warmachine that blends in with the new style, allowing big conversions of the FW machines as well.
Just my two cents
Thommy H:
And the fact that you have loads of ideas in mind isn't biasing your preference at all is it ;PUh...well, I'm biased in the sense that I think the idea I'm arguing for is better, yeah. That's why I'm arguing for it. Was this supposed to be some sort of super objective debate?
Nicodemus
snowblizz:
Kinda with Thommy on this. Anything from SoM sounds good to me.
And I’m totally objective because I have no intention of competing.:hat off
vulcanologist:
I’m quite happy with whatever category is decided upon. Storm of magic sounds good and like I already said in an earlier post fliers sounds good too! My only caveat would be with too diverse a category… I actually think the narrowness and simplicity of the Golden Hat XV brief made it IMHO the best competition yet.
Nebuchandnezzar:
How about this, the catagory could be a SoM scroll of binding with a Chaos Dwarf twist to it and have a max base size of, lets say that of a giant. This way we can have diversity and cool minis that have their own unique feel to it instead of 5 great tauruses and 5 cockatrice that have been painted really well, so who knows what the community will throw down as we’ve already heard of CD gyrocopters so next we may have a group of armoured sabertusks or even horrifically mutated seige giant. With the fact tha all collecters are not as skilled as others at sculpting in mind there are plenty of fantastic SoM monsters out there ready to be painted as what we would have to remember is that its a painting competition more than it its a conversion competition.
There is some food for thought :cheers
cornixt:
I think it might be a bit too diverse to have a choice of 45 different models (more accurately it’s 45 different sets of rules) unless we try to convince people to consider how Chaos-Dwarfy it is when they vote, but I’m not too keen on that either.
Maybe have a subset of creatures that would feasibly exist in the Dark Lands. There’s bound to be at least one that would fit someone’s gyrocopter conversion or such.
tjub:
Whatever the admins decide on, I wouldnt mind to see some of the older catagorys come back in the future. After all, its been a few years since GH started…
cornixt:
We will definitely revisit some of the old units that have been covered before, although we don’t want to do it just before GW of FW release a model for that unit and we want to keep it as fresh as possible by not just doing a rehash.
Hashut’s Blessing:
My sugestion of fliers wasn’t meant to be specifically fliers, but rather use a characteristic to narrow the playing field.
45 scrolls of binding, many of which have two or more variations and then there are options therein.
It could be up to a number of points, but must be a single model or it could be a certain base size or a certain number of models or be a certain unit type. I was simply trying to suggest a way of narrowing the field to allow the really open GHs to be reserved for more landmark numbers
fonejaker:
instead of flyers, an airborn unit would be a bit better. Leave us open to do an airship, a flying taurus/lammasu or some hobgoblins that have been given the wizard of OZ flying monkey treatment!!!
GO MY PRETTIES
snowblizz:
Leave us open to do an airship,Use the SoM Dragon entry?
fonejaker
a flying taurus/lammasu or
fonejaker
Taurus / Lammasu obviously.
some hobgoblins that have been given the wizard of OZ flying monkey treatment!!!!Use the SoM Harpies entry.
fonejaker
Thommy H:
Yeah, this is why I (still!) think just saying “any SoM monster” would work pretty well. I’d be happy to put together a list of them all, with clarifications over variants, along with base sizes and unit types if it would help?
I know everyone is saying it makes it too open, but this would actually be the first time GH has a proscribed list of possible entry types! Think about the arguments we’ve had in the past of whether something is a valid entry because of vague wording. That should be avoidable with this idea. The only source of confusion is the “Chaos Dwarf themed” bit, but we don’t have to be too stringent - technically, SoM gives you a narrative for including anything and everything with almost no justification (literally, “A Wizard Did It”) so if someone wants to just paint up a Cockatrice as normal, there’s no reason that couldn’t work. All SoM monsters are valid units for Chaos Dwarfs. But I do think theming it is cooler, so we should encourage it.
Nicodemus:
Someone just needs to step in and make the final decision and then start the contest. We’re not all going to agree with the full SoM list, neither is everyone going to agree to a paired down list of “SoM monsters that fit on something less than 100x100mm” or “only fliers”, etc. or what ever other idea comes from the person that can shout the loudest.
Here’s the run-down of past GH Contests:
Golden Hat #1 - Convert a BFSP Warrior to a Chaos Dwarf
Golden Hat #2 - Rykarth, the Unbreakable (special character for the Nemesis Crown Campaign 2007)
Golden Hat #3 - Hobgoblin Hero
Golden Hat #4 - 5 Slaves, representing Orcs or Goblins)
Golden Hat #5 - Standard Bearer
Golden Hat #6 - Chaos Dwarf Gaoler
Golden Hat #7 - Chaos Dwarf Duel
Golden Hat #8 - Chaos Dwarf War Machine
Golden Hat #9 - Chaos Dwarf Bull Centaur
Golden Hat #10 - Chaos Dwarf Bull Centaur
Golden Hat #11 - Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer
Golden Hat #12 - Chaos Dwarfs with Blunderbusses
Golden Hat #13 - Chaos Dwarf Musician
Golden Hat #14 - Chaos Dwarf-themed Monster
Golden Hat #15 - Single Evil Dwarf Infantryman
Leaving the contest open to any SoM entry, whlie different in technical details to GH #14, is still in the same spirit of GH14, in that it was an open competition for something Monstrous that was also Chaos Dwarf themed.
I still think the fliers idea is good. But let’s decouple that idea from SoM entirely, shall we? The CD-themed fliers could perhaps be on the back-burner for a future GH contest… perhaps along with revisiting the CD-themed Monster entry, which is still to recent, IMHO.
If we’re really after stuff useful in SoM games, and keeping with the bandwagon, what about another spell caster? Sorcerers were done in GH11, but we haven’t done mounted Sorcerers or Daemonsmiths, or other variations thereof.
~N
Kered:
How about a chaos dwarf themed Arcane Fulcrum (maybe with a sorcerer atop it) or would that be something more appropriate for an artisans contest?