wizuriel:
apparently the France GW updated the base chart and classified BC as calvary: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2440020_FRE_WH_Socles-PU-Type.pdf
Thommy H:
They are cavalry, by the rules. Have been since 7th Edition.
Tarrakk Blackhand:
So is this a new PDF, or is it just another copy of RH?
Thommy H:
It has nothing to do with Ravening Hordes: it’s the base size chart, clarifying what models should have what bases. Bull Centaurs are classed as cavalry in this document, which isn’t surprising as that’s exactly what they are according to the rules.
And, Tarrakk, for the record: if any new rules come out for Chaos Dwarfs, there’ll be rumours about it months ahead of time and you will know about it well in advance because we’ll be talking about it lots on this forum 
Tarrakk Blackhand:
Kool Thommy. I tried to download this, but my home computer just doesn’t have the power.
Swissdictator:
IIRC they’re ruled as being able to use weapons like Centaurs (IE: They benefit from extra hand weapon, can use GW for +2 S) or am I wrong?
In either case, do we get the +1 save for being cav then? As if I can’t use their weapons like Centaurs can, I think we should get the +1 save… we’re neither eating or having our cake… and that will make HB very sad 
Thommy H:
I can’t get to it at work either, but I know what it is, and what it will most likely say about Bull Centaurs. For the record though, you can’t read too much into an update from GW France - just because it happened on a GW website doesn’t mean it’s a decision that’s officially endorsed by the design studio or anything. This doesn’t represent an update of any description.
Thommy H:
IIRC they're ruled as being able to use weapons like Centaurs (IE: They benefit from extra hand weapon, can use GW for +2 S) or am I wrong?Yes, you are wrong :P
In either case, do we get the +1 save for being cav then? As if I can't use their weapons like Centaurs can, I think we should get the +1 save... we're neither eating or having our cake... and that will make HB very sad :P
Swissdictator
There's a sticky about this in the Tactics and Advice forum, but the RAW are that Bull Centaurs are cavalry for the purposes of weapons, but a single creature for the purposes of armour (so they don't get a +1 Save bonus). They're exactly like Chaos Hounds and their ilk in that respect: Chaos Hounds are just lucky enough to not have to use weapons, so no one notices - if they had access to great weapons, they'd only get +1 Strength too.
cornixt:
In either case, do we get the +1 save for being cav then?No models get +1 save for being cavalry, they get it for being mounted.
Swissdictator
Tarrakk Blackhand:
you can't read too much into an update from GW FranceIs this just because the French do things differently? ~ joke!
Thommy H
I'm going to try and look at this on my store computer tommorrow. At least i know it will have a better chance of uploading it.
snowblizz:
Its nothing spectacular. Just the same US chart that they released for 6th a bit updated. With luck it will eventually turn up in English as well. Hashut knows its been asked for since 7th ed came out...you can't read too much into an update from GW FranceIs this just because the French do things differently? ~ joke!
Thommy H
I'm going to try and look at this on my store computer tommorrow. At least i know it will have a better chance of uploading it.
Tarrakk Blackhand
Groznit Goregut:
Well, I am happy I am in the US and that question has been answered by that GT ruling.
Thommy H:
The GT ruling has no bearing on where you live. It was made for a tournament in the US, but that doesn’t mean America uses different rules for Bull Centaurs than everyone else.
The US GT ruling is a guideline for how the design studio would be likely to interpret the rules if they specifically addressed the issues with Bull Centaurs. It, officially, applies only to the tournament for which it was written. By the rules, Bull Centaurs are cavalry, and get only +1 Strength when using their great weapons, and can’t utilise their option for a second hand weapon at all.
Now, the way everyone plays them is in line with the US GT. You’d be insane to do otherwise. But there’s no denying what the rules are, and no point debating which to follow. Either you house rule it in line with the US GT ruling, or you go by RAW.
cornixt:
For those who want to double check for themselves, I wrote this thread:
https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/6710
dedwrekka:
IIRC they're ruled as being able to use weapons like Centaurs (IE: They benefit from extra hand weapon, can use GW for +2 S) or am I wrong?That was from the US GT, and no, no +1 cav save.
In either case, do we get the +1 save for being cav then? As if I can't use their weapons like Centaurs can, I think we should get the +1 save... we're neither eating or having our cake... and that will make HB very sad :P
Swissdictator
Additionally, according the the US GT FAQ it's a ruling for that seasons USGTs only, not rogue trader tournaments, not friendly leagues, not playing on your grandma's table. Unless both sides agree, it's as worthless as whatever you print it on.
The GT ruling has no bearing on where you live. It was made for a tournament in the US, but that doesn't mean America uses different rules for Bull Centaurs than everyone else.
The US GT ruling is a guideline for how the design studio would be likely to interpret the rules if they specifically addressed the issues with Bull Centaurs. It, officially, applies only to the tournament for which it was written. By the rules, Bull Centaurs are cavalry, and get only +1 Strength when using their great weapons, and can't utilise their option for a second hand weapon at all.
Now, the way everyone plays them is in line with the US GT. You'd be insane to do otherwise. But there's no denying what the rules are, and no point debating which to follow. Either you house rule it in line with the US GT ruling, or you go by RAW.
Thommy H
There is a thrid option to playing them by USGT or RAW. Play them as they were in 6th ed, extremely fast infantry.
Thommy H:
Additionally, according the the US GT FAQ it's a ruling for that seasons USGTs only, not rogue trader tournaments, not friendly leagues, not playing on your grandma's table. Unless both sides agree, it's as worthless as whatever you print it on.Yeah, that's pretty much what I said. And, since Chaos Dwarfs occupy the same nebulous area of "legality" as the US GT FAQ, I think if an opponent is willing to let you play with them at all, they'll probably let you run Bull Centaurs in the most logical and internally consistent way.
But yeah, it is a house rule. It won't fly with rules lawyers, but who cares about those guys anyway?
Play them as they were in 6th ed, extremely fast infantry.Which is what the US GT says, in fact. Cavalry are defined by the way they use weapons, so if you let them use weapons as infantry then that's exactly what they are: speedy infantry.
Kera foehunter:
cool thanks Tommy h At least i can read it !! on to the Gt and then the world
figures bY september
wizuriel:
I suppose if people really follow RAW you can just pull out another earth shaker
dedwrekka:
As I recall, they still used Great Weapons as cavalry by the GT FAQ, not as infantry.Play them as they were in 6th ed, extremely fast infantry.Which is what the US GT says, in fact. Cavalry are defined by the way they use weapons, so if you let them use weapons as infantry then that's exactly what they are: speedy infantry.
Thommy H
two_heads_talking:
oh noes… RAW vs RAI… It’s the biggest and worst debate ever. the problem with RAI is that no one knows what the intention of the developers was… and the problem with RAW is that no one seems to be able to read and comprehend English anymore… lol