Ulgurstasta:
Do you think it would be possible for other races to benefit from the worship of Hashut? Could a beastman/human/ogre gain rewards or use his lore?
I started to think about this earlier today as I was pondering over ideas for Darklands themed armies and I think it could be a interesting concept. Now from the wiki I found that Hashut is… “uniquely associated with the Chaos Dwarfs” but that was all I could find about Hashut and his relations to Chaos Dwarfs contra other races.
Ideas?
Oh and first post! :hat off
brotsorrow:
Congrats on first post!!!
From my understanding of the CHaos Dwarfs and Hashut, their are strong beliefs that Hashut is just an embodiment of one of the 4 chaos gods manipulating the dwarfs. Many think it may be Khorne, but with the strong emphasis on Magic, i find this hard to believe…
So to answer your question, yes, why not? Humanity’s history is filled with examples of one culture |borrowing" another culture’s gods and religion - look at the similarities between greek and roman mythology and even the loose similarities between Heracles and Jesus. So another warhammer race could follow Hashut with a slight name change, a couple tweaks to accomodate culture… and voila - Hashut has more followers
Grimstonefire:
As I see it there are no reasons why other races couldn’t worship Hashut, but whether Hashut would reward non CD followers I’m not so sure.
Same is true of every god in the warhammer world.
The lores based on the 8 winds are much easier for all races to manipulate based on their own sorcery than ones that are race specific. The eight winds do not rely on the support of any god, where race specific lores might…(?)
All inspirational stuff for my book actually.
AGPO:
There’s no reason it can’t happen, but I’d say it is unlikely. Hashut worship is deeply linked to the Chaos Dwarf race, even that they believe themselves to have been formed in a specific way to please their god. If you look at Hashut’s chosen creatures - the Lammasu, Bull Centaurs and the Taurus, they’re all a cross between Bulls and Chaos Dwarfs. Other races lack the special connection the Chaos Dwarfs have with Hashut.
What may exist on the other hand are Hashut’s daemons. The old Realm of Chaos books had a whole load of background for creating the daemonic followers of lesser chaos gods. Could be worth a look if you can get hold of a copy.
Kaliburnen:
That’d be cool… Bloodletters of Hashut! or maybe completely new daemons!
Vogon:
What may exist on the other hand are Hashut's daemons. The old Realm of Chaos books had a whole load of background for creating the daemonic followers of lesser chaos gods. Could be worth a look if you can get hold of a copy.
AGPO
I'll have to dig mine out and have a read. Is this where the daemons bound into K'Daai come from?
One thing I'm not totally sure on is the use of slaves in Chaos Dwarf society. Yes they are used for labour and sacrifices but are they also used as household servants and such like similar to other slave owning societies? If they do I could easily see the slaves in positions with more direct contact with chaos dwarf society becoming a devotee of Hashut and worshipping possibly even with a slaves section of the temple?
I'd never really thought about this before
Cheers
Vogon
MLP:
I don’t see any reason why a Darklands army couldn’t worship Hashut and just not recieve any benefit from him. You can still have nice conversions and an army theme as they show their devotion and whatever. But for magic they can just use one of the 8 lores.
metro_gnome:
in the olden days we often discussed whether Hobgoblins worshipped Hashut, Gork and Mork or indeed something else entirely…
But it isn’t resolved anywhere in the fluff…
Ulgurstasta:
There's no reason it can't happen, but I'd say it is unlikely. Hashut worship is deeply linked to the Chaos Dwarf race, even that they believe themselves to have been formed in a specific way to please their god. If you look at Hashut's chosen creatures - the Lammasu, Bull Centaurs and the Taurus, they're all a cross between Bulls and Chaos Dwarfs. Other races lack the special connection the Chaos Dwarfs have with Hashut.
AGPO
Too bad we don't have much lore on the subject, I'm kinda curious on how Racial specific chaos gods work. Regarding the bull "look" I think that would lend itself quite well to a beastmen army with lots of minos and bovigors.
And yes the Realm of Chaos books are excellent, I'm using them to make a lesser deity for my current project!
Congrats on first post!!!
From my understanding of the CHaos Dwarfs and Hashut, their are strong beliefs that Hashut is just an embodiment of one of the 4 chaos gods manipulating the dwarfs. Many think it may be Khorne, but with the strong emphasis on Magic, i find this hard to believe...
Thanks! Hashut being one of the big four in disguise or just a different facet of one of them is pretty interesting and have a whole lot of different implications then him being a "Solo" god. It's a shame that the CD and the Darklands hasn't been explored to a greater extent.
Then again I haven't read the 6th edition (or was it 5th edition?) CD book, so it might contain something that would shed light on the subject.
in the olden days we often discussed whether Hobgoblins worshipped Hashut, Gork and Mork or indeed something else entirely....
But it isn't resolved anywhere in the fluff...
Well speculation can be fun too! :)
AGPO:
Glad someone else remembers bovigors. I keep meaning to convert some up for my beastmen army, but as always there are just too many projects. Back in the day, Slaanesh used to have a distinct bovine theme going on. Then again, it’s been hinted at that all the gods (chaos or not) are aspects of one great entity.
Grimstonefire:
I had a quick flick through Lost and Damned and Slaves to Darkness (these are the Realm of Chaos books right?), which pages are you looking at for daemon creation?
Ulgurstasta:
I had a quick flick through Lost and Damned and Slaves to Darkness (these are the Realm of Chaos books right?), which pages are you looking at for daemon creation?
Grimstonefire
It's a part of the "Lesser powers of Chaos" in Lost and the Damned, the page dealing with Lesser Demons is 96.
Be prepared for d1000 tables!
brotsorrow:
in the olden days we often discussed whether Hobgoblins worshipped Hashut, Gork and Mork or indeed something else entirely....
But it isn't resolved anywhere in the fluff...
metro_gnome
This is a fantastic question. Im actually embarrassed i never thought of this before..... SO what did you guys decide?
brotsorrow:
as for speculation… GW is awesome at creating mystery be it by fluke or on purpose… the Horus Heresy is a perfect example. Mind you 10 yrs ago no one thought that GW would finally make an official history of how one brave Horus would try to free the galaxy from the Emperor’s tyranny
metro_gnome:
SO what did you guys decide?
brotsorrow
well with no access to the big or little Waaagh! it would seem Hobbies stand outside of the great green...
However their betrayal of their brethren during the Black Orc uprising
was brutally cunning...
that should impress Mork (or possibly Gork?)... but I can't see the brothers condoning it...
it's hard to believe this event would be a theological one for hobgoblins...
There is lotsa of reasons why it could be Hashut... I mean would CDs tolerate a heathen gods in their midst?
but for the same reason... they may find it equally distasteful for the little blighters to speak Hashut's name...
It could be something else entirely... or nothing at all... WHFB athiests? Doesn't seem grimdark enough...
Ugly Green Trog:
I liked the fluff from someone on this site (can’t remember who wrote it now) about a version of the creation/corruption of the chaos dwarves in which Hashut was originally one of the dwarf ancestor gods and was aspected like the others only Hashut embodied the gold lust and greed of the dwarven race. It’s by far my favourite interpretation and the one I choose to go with, None of the other chaos gods fit quite with the chaos dwarves, The only one it could be is Tzeench the others are all completely wrong.
Veshnakar:
I think it’s safe to assume there are other races that may be drawn to the worship of Hashut, especially the races that tend to find themselves ingrained in Chaos Dwarf society like Ogres and perhaps even hobgoblins and black orcs.
Like others here though I think Chaos Dwarfs share a unique connection with their god, much like O&G with Gork/Mork, and Skaven with the Horned Rat, ie there aren’t many other races that worship the Horned Rat or Gork and Mork besides their select races. Chaos Dwarfs are fairly reclusive, and inhabit a desolate wasteland, and don’t really get out of the Dark Lands much, so it’s likely that beyond Ogres there aren’t many followers of Hashut beyond the Chaos Dwarfs.
And also, it is not likely in my opinion that Hashut is Khorne at all. Rather to me it seems that the 4 main chaos gods are not exactly “entities” as such but rather the most prominent collections of emotions or desires that accumulate in the whole of Chaos: War/hatred, desire for change/knowledge, fear/fear of death, and lust/greed, and I think Hashut falls close between Khorne and Tzeentch. The war-like nature and industrial drive of the chaos dwarfs coupled with the prophets search for knowledge and power; it just makes the most sense to me, but I don’t think chaos is nearly that simple.
brotsorrow:
And also, it is not likely in my opinion that Hashut is Khorne at all. Rather to me it seems that the 4 main chaos gods are not exactly "entities" as such but rather the most prominent collections of emotions or desires that accumulate in the whole of Chaos: War/hatred, desire for change/knowledge, fear/fear of death, and lust/greed, and I think Hashut falls close between Khorne and Tzeentch. The war-like nature and industrial drive of the chaos dwarfs coupled with the prophets search for knowledge and power; it just makes the most sense to me, but I don't think chaos is nearly that simple.
Veshnakar
Well said Vesh. So if i understand this correctly Hashut could be a purple skull taker or a red flamer? Jokes aside, i think 40k uses this type of idea of embodiment instead of an actual "being". i know i am trapped into thinking of embodiment due to the models for the greater deamon models
Discoking:
There are hundreds of lesser Chaos gods, this is known. Hashut is one of them. Easy.
I read somewhere that he is more like an ArchDaemon.
Anyone else remember the 5th Chaos God, Malal?
Vogon:
There are hundreds of lesser Chaos gods, this is known. Hashut is one of them. Easy.
I read somewhere that he is more like an ArchDaemon.
Anyone else remember the 5th Chaos God, Malice?
Discoking
Wasn't the 5th Chaos god Malal? Though he left with the author over copy-write issues ;)
Cheers
Vogon