[Archive] Hobgoblin Rules Clarification

Tarrakk Blackhand:

Hi everyone!

I started playing Warhammer Fantasy again with some new people in my hobby store (Seems like every few months it starts and then stalls out again) and finally sold my last set of BFSP and the player decided to go with the Night Goblins from the set. (I traded my goblins from one of my old BFSP store demo sets with him for his Dwarfs.)

Anyway, as we were playing, we were making up 1000 point armies and his goblins were undersized, so he equiped his Goblin Spider Riders with spears and shields, as per the Wysiwyg model, but included their short bows and arrows, as well as what the goblin rules said.

Here’s my question: When I built my Hobgoblin Wolf Riders, I made them using the BFSP Spider Riders and some Chaos Hell Hounds.



As you can see, they are carrying a shield and an axe. They don’t have armour or bows.

My question is : Can I equip them to have all the options - Axe, Shield, bow and light armour (Total cost of 7 points per model), or is it simular to the Blunderbuss units where they have to take their hand weapon and shield and exchange them for the Blunderbuss?

In other words…have I been missing the potential in previous games of my Wolf Riders because I didn’t think I could fully equip them? Or was I right in that the model must be Wysiwyg?

Basically, as they stand now, they are not entirely effective in combat and often get cut to ribbons by their opponients…sometimes before they even move into attack position. (at least when I play against elves.) I think the light armour could help them out a lot, and the range would be a help too.

I wasn’t sure if this idea was legal, so please let me know, ok?

Thanx.

Tarrakk.

Bassman:

As long as I know you can equip them as you prefer. You can even load them with armor, shield and bows!

They do not even loose the light cavalry rule :wink:

Said this I think they easily become over expensive for what they do.

I am pretty sure not everybody agree with me :wink:

Thommy H:

Hobgoblin Wolf Riders can be given any of the equipment options specified in their entry - but they should still be modelled with all their equipment. So if you give them shields and bows, the majority of models in the unit should be carrying both a shield and a bow.

Bolg:

What Thommy H says…

But you could easily get a way with the lack of armour by saying the have “magic Warpaint” that counts as light armour.

AGPO:

Thommy is right on this one. Best of all under the RH rules they keep their light cavalry rule even with armour and shield. So you can get a reasonable flanking unit moving 18" a turn with free manouvres plus a 4+ save and 26 attacks in CC

nitroglysarine:

wysiwyg within fair reason, pop a few spare bows on packs behind them, and i’d say its fair!

Thommy H:

Thommy is right on this one. Best of all under the RH rules they keep their light cavalry rule even with armour and shield. So you can get a reasonable flanking unit moving 18" a turn with free manouvres plus a 4+ save and 26 attacks in CC

AGPO
Yep. I believe someone once said they were the best unit in the game.

Da Crusha:

Yep. I believe someone once said they were the best unit in the game.

Thommy H
I disagree, I think they get way too expensive and they don't usually pay for themselves.

Thommy H:

I’m afraid you are incorrect.

Da Crusha:

you’re entitled to your opinion. I don’t think they are that good.

Tarrakk Blackhand:

wysiwyg within fair reason, pop a few spare bows on packs behind them, and i'd say its fair!
This was my intention...just wanted to see if it was legal.

ThanX Thommy H! :D I knew you'd reply sooner or later.

What about a new section called "Ask Thommy H"?

Thommy H:

I thought that’s what this place was…

nitroglysarine:

I strap all kinds of stuff to the back of my empire knights, just incase the other players object to the idea of great swords or 2hw on a knight!

Bolg:

I got bases full of extra weapons, great weapons, shields bows an quivers just so whatever i’m playing its alway completely legal and wysiwyg.

AGPO:

Yep. I believe someone once said they were the best unit in the game.

Thommy H
I disagree, I think they get way too expensive and they don't usually pay for themselves.


Da Crusha
I've never known the unit not pay for itself, so maybe it's the way you're using them. They're not a throwaway unit like some light cavalry and their not heavy hitters like knights. Used in partnership with heavier units or as a genuine threat to the flanks they're excellent.

Thommy H:

Any unit with a 42" threat range, 10 wounds and a 4+ armour save for 130 points has to be considered a bargain.

Nicodemus:

I can only speak from my own experience here, but I’ve had very good luck with Hobgoblin Wolfriders so far.  Very low points cost for what you get. Decent weapon selection, high movement + Vanguard rule, plus stacking up their light armour/shield/mounted armour bonus is a nice boon. Sure their stat isn’t isn’t going to place them in the top tier, but for their cost you’re getting two models, and each can attack.

They have their time and place. I treat them like cheap costed, highly mobile meat shield scalpel blades… I try to get them to where they’re going to go as fast as possible, and consider them expendable. I just need them to get in, disrupt, distract and if I’m lucky enough that they kill some things too (and they always have), so much the better. You lose the fast cav rule if you put a Hobgoblin Wolfrider Hero in the mix, but if you can manage to get the unit to do what you want with one or more such Heroes in there too, even better as those heroes are so cheap for what you get. Again, I find it helps to consider them expendable… that way I can be pleasantly surprised when the heroes survive (and they have almost every time so far!!).

Next game is tomorrow night (2000pts against Skaven again). I’ll have a unit of Hobgoblin Wolfriders as well as a 66pt Hobgoblin Hero on a Wolf.  We’ll see how they do charging down the Skaven warmachines this time :stuck_out_tongue: Even if I bail at the last minute it usually means my opponent is redirecting units and his strategy has been disrupted by his first or second turn… giving my much slower CDs time to do stuff :wink:

~N

snowblizz:

Thank you guys, now I don’t feel so bad about the dozen or so I have acquired.

Da Crusha:

Any unit with a 42" threat range, 10 wounds and a 4+ armour save for 130 points has to be considered a bargain.

Thommy H
I've never known the unit not pay for itself, so maybe it's the way you're using them.

AGPO
ok maybe Im not using them to their full potential that is a possibility. but, in 8th edition they are not as good. for 130 points you only get 10 hgwr with light armour and shield, no bows, that means no 42" threat, and no command. you have a unit that will typically panic and flee (quickly) as soon as it takes 3 wounds and will unlikely rally especially without a musician. as far as threatening flanks, you have to have 2 ranks in order to disrupt ranks. and once the unit attacks them and only causes one wound they no longer disrupt ranks. and even if they didn't do that one wound back, the unit will likely be steadfast and hold anyway. I would much rather take a unit of 65 hobgoblins that can hold up the toughest enemy for most of the game.

hobgoblins wolf riders are not the best unit in the game or even close.  
Thank you guys, now I don't feel so bad about the dozen or so I have acquired.

snowblizz
They can still be useful but you have to use them correctly. In 8th edition I would recommend using them in units of 15. That way they can disrupt ranks and still have enough room to take casualties. You will want to bring full command, and of course like agpo said earlier, use them to combo charge, front and flank. but it gets expensive, 16 points each. thats 270 points with full equipment and command.

Thommy H:

or 130 points you only get 10 hgwr with light armour and shield, no bows
Yeah, you're right - it's 160. Still a good deal though. They've won me games anyway.