metro_gnome:
all gods are aspects of chaos… aspects of the big 4…
and a great many of them have their own free will…
Tallhat:
I hope you dont mean elven and human gods as well. And yes of course the GODS have their own free will but one of the theories that was flowing around on the site was that Hashut was a renegade Bloodthirster which isnt possible since they are mere extensions of the God itself.
- Tallhat
zagor66:
Have to agree with tallhat on this one.
metro_gnome:
not a renegade blood thirster… that is impossible…
Hashut is a renegade daemon prince…
which is quite possible… and is how gods are made…
and yes ALL gods are of Chaos… elves, dwarves, humans, ogres, 3 toed-sloths…
“These are the greatest of the gods to who all other gods - each and every one - are but portions or conjunctions”the bold is mine… but the seperation by hyphen is the work of GW…
HoC page 15
“To imagine that those very dieties were but shards of the infinitely more mighty thing that is Chaos would be too terrifying for any priest of Sigmar, Ulric, or priestess of Shayalla to even contemplate. As wiser and less sanctimonious Elves might counsel, it is best to put such thoughts aside and let doubts remain unvoiced, for the alternative it to turn to darkness.”
HoC page 15
Willmark:
Hmmm lets see… Just what does Hashut look like? Easy to answer, but first look at his followers for the answer.
1) Chaos Dwarfs have long curly beards
2) Usually long unkempt hair to go along with said long curly beards
3) Live in an area with lots of smoke and ash.
4) Both monstrous mounts breathe/snort fire
5) Sorcerers get “stoned” eventually…
Real easy here is what Hashut looks like to the Chaos Dwarfs 
metro_gnome:
OMG hashut is bob marley!!!
zagor66:
Has anyone[and heres just a thought]even considered making a hashut model or picture?
Willmark:
OMG hashut is bob marley!!!!Explains a lot about Hashut doesn't it. Plus look at the gods name: "HASH-ut"...
metro_gnome
zagor66:
LOL!!!
Canix:
Bob was a GOD.I will be making a Hashut aspect out of OX-ROAR the chaos champion of ultimate slaughter with some demon wings(not sure which yet) and lots of GS for flames smoke and spiky chains
http://ww.solegends.com/citcat912/c20296minotaurlords.htm
for original model:hashut
its on stuff of legends as link dont work!
zagor66:
Page cannot be displayed , sorry.
Tallhat:
OMG hashut is bob marley!!!!Hahahaha!! :) That is brilliant :)
metro_gnome
- Tallhat
Tallhat:
So what you are saying is that Sigmar is in fact an aspect of Chaos? I find that very hard to believe.
not a renegade blood thirster... that is impossible...
Hashut is a renegade daemon prince...
which is quite possible... and is how gods are made...
and yes ALL gods are of Chaos... elves, dwarves, humans, ogres, 3 toed-sloths..."These are the greatest of the gods to who all other gods - each and every one - are but portions or conjunctions"the bold is mine... but the seperation by hyphen is the work of GW...
HoC page 15"To imagine that those very dieties were but shards of the infinitely more mighty thing that is Chaos would be too terrifying for any priest of Sigmar, Ulric, or priestess of Shayalla to even contemplate. As wiser and less sanctimonious Elves might counsel, it is best to put such thoughts aside and let doubts remain unvoiced, for the alternative it to turn to darkness."
HoC page 15
metro_gnome
- Tallhat
cornixt:
Why? The worship of Sigmar is no different from the worship from the worship of any other god, it creates movements and formations in the ‘warp’, which in turn allows it to interact with the real world. Whether the god Sigmar is anything like the person Sigmar is another matter.
wallacer:
All Gods are Chaos Gods in the sense that they reside in the warp, but that isn’t necessarily (imo) the same thing as actually being an aspect of the Big Four.
I don’t consider Chaos and the Big Four to be mutually inclusive categories.
metro_gnome:
well sure if you choose to ignore HoC page 15 you can consider whatever you want…
well in case the elevated gods like sigmar or dwarf anscestor gods…
these individuals are not infact the gods at all…
but rather something in the warp assumes their form when the worship began…
No doubt the enitity that became “sigmar” existed in one form or another long before the mortal sigmar appeared…
but it was only after the legendary human that was called “sigmar”…
that people began to worship the particular things that the entity represents…
i imagine the “Sigmar entity” has to do with martial prowess … and so falls exclusively under an aspect of Khorne…
wallacer:
In the WFRP Magic book it describes magical energy (Chaos warpspace matter, or whatever you want to call it) as being “potential without purpose”. In other words once Gods are formed by the worship of mortals this potential energy begins to be moulded into what it’s worships choose to make it, rather like a sculptor moulding clay. In other words, in the beginning man created God 
metro_gnome:
aye… but the “beliefs” that the sigmar enitity represents existed before sigmar the man…
its just that people could now put a name on that belief… whatever it is…
with larger enities like the big 4 the beilef is so basic that it can be identified very easily…
Hope is Tzeench, Rage is Khorne, Despair is Nurgle…
Pleasure is Slaanesh… but even this is relatively new…
as Human being developed leisure over just plain survival so developed Slaanesh…
What sigmar represents cannot be put into so many words… or words at all really…
But whatever it is… it existed before the man sigmar came along…
and as dogma grew up around this man’s life…
so too did the sigmar entity elevate to god status…
These gods… the lesser gods… the good gods…
are what happens when one places a magnifying glass over a very small part of Chaos…
While the Big four are wholly neutral to the morality of humanity (or elves or dwarves)…
Shayalla for example is of an aspect of Nurgle…
She represents healing… and so nurgh: the will to live…
Nurgle represents the will to live… but that will is not restricted to human or elfkind…
he is patron to all life… and so disease is his emblem…
as that is where the most life can exist in the one place at the one time…
the constant state of disease in his followers is a tribute to life… not in mockery of it…
and even tho Shayalla hates Nurgle… and fights against him (as sigmar against khorne)…
she is inherently part of him… but an infintely small part of him…
the part concerned with the well being of pointy-eared tree huggers…
wallacer:
Interesting…
I think what Sigmar embodies is the Empire itself, in other words the desire of the people who live in what is now called the Empire to exist as an all-encomapssing whole to facilitate their collective survival.
In other words, Sigmar the god does not pre-date Sigmar the man.
Sigmar, by his words and actions, created the self-belief and sheer strength of will in his ideals that would result in the ground-swell of belief amongst the peoples of what would become the Empire that ultimately resulted in Sigmars elevation to Godhood.
Granted, this has a kind of chicken and egg feel about it.
My point I suppose, is that while the chaos energy in warp space that would eventually become Sigmar (the clay that his Godhood would be moulded from, if you like) existed before Sigmar-the-God (and in that sense you are correct) it was not until Sigmar instilled the beliefs in his followers of a unified Empire of Man that Sigmar-the-God began to be formed in warpspace (in other words, he needed the belief in his ideals to take hold before the clay could start to be moulded).
metro_gnome:
i don’t know about linking a god to a specific place… if the place becomes captured does he cease to be a god?
perhaps the thing that became Sigmar came about from the fragmentation of the larger thing that was nationalism…
rather than a god rising we have a god breaking away…
or are all country gods just the worship of the god of nationalism by many different names? :hat off