…why not a Grand Wizard that is simular to the AoD set-up?
A Level 6 Wizard who could be mounted on some type of raised pedistal or throne surrounded by the spell books of the older Wizards that turned to stone centuries ago?
Like the AoD, he could also have 2 guards and an “apprentace” like Kraggi - possibly a modification of the BFSP Cannon Crewmember that carries the cannon ball. (A Crystal Ball?)
Here’s an idea of what I mean.
Farlund Chaoswalker, Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer Lord - Master Wizard of Hashut and Holder of The Ancient Texts
Farlund Chaoswalker is the most powerfull of all the Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer Lords. He is as equilly feared as he is revered throughout the Dark Lands. He has sucessfully found a way to slow down the Curse of Stone that overtakes the lesser Chaos Dwarf Sorcerers. In fact, he has slowed it down so much that some say he is the oldest of all the living Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer Lords, living well beyond 1000 years.
It is only fitting that Farlund Chaoswalker is the holder of all the ancient spells and texts dating back to the first Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer. Through centuries of study in each spell book, Farlund has mastered many skills in the black arts, most of which are not known to the lesser Sorcerers.
Farlund’s vast library is too large to carry into battle all at once, so he only takes 6 of his best spells to thwart his enemies. Depending on the curcumstances of the battle, he can choose 6 spells from one of the Fire, Metal, Shadow or Death Lores of magic from the Warhammer Rule Book.
In addition to his books, he also brings his newest apprentice, Barbaak Blacktounge to assist him in his magic spells as well as 2 guards to protect the ancient knowledge from falling into the wrong hands.
Farlund Chaoswalker can be taken as a Lord Choice in a Chaos Dwarf Army, but will also take up one of your Hero choices as well. He must be fielded exactly as presented and no extra equipment can be bought for him. The cost of his spells, Circle of Books, Barbaak Blacktounge and the 2 Guards are included in his total cost.
Points: 505
Weapons: The Staff of Stone
Armour: Armour of Gazrakh
Magical Items
The Staff of Stone: Farlund Chaoswalker is the only known Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer Lord who has sucessfully defeated the Stone Curse inherant to all Chaos dwarf Sorcerers who dabble in the Black Arts. He has done this by harnessing the curse into a magical staff which he uses to tellecast it upon his enemies.
From a range of 24 inches, Farlund can aim his staff towards an enemy model and instill him with the Curse of Stone. The victum slowly turns to stone from his feet upwards. To perform any action, the model must first roll under his strength charateristic on 2D6 at the start of every turn. If he suceeds, he can perform his turn as normal. If he fails, he is turned to stone until Farlund decides to release him by choosing another enemy or until Farlund is destroyed. Farlund can only cast this spell on one enemy model per magic phase.
Should Farlund enter hand to hand combat, the Staff of Stone gives Farlund a +1 Attack Characturistic.
Farlund’s Armour of Gazrakh gives him a 1+ armour save which can not be improved.
Circle of Books
Farlund Chaoswalker always brings 6 of his best spells with him into combat. However, he can only choose from the 4 Lores common to all the Chaos Dwarfs. Which set of Lore spells he brings to the battle are determined by rolling a D4 at the begining of the game. Start by rolling the D4. A roll with a #1=Fire Lore, #2=Metal Lore, #3=Shadow Lore and #4=Death Lore. Farlund can use all 6 of the spells common to that 1 Magical Lore. Spells are cast as normal with the following addition noted below:
Master of the Ancient Text. - Farlund is so skilled in his centuries of study that he can cast spells from the Ancient Texts on a roll of 3+.
The Sorcerer’s Apprentace. - Barbaak Blacktounge is a young Mage learning his craft from the master of all Chaos Dwarf sorcerers. Although he hasn’t been casting spells as much as Farlund, he has learned how to make an arcane item or two. Barbaak Blacktounge is treated as a Unit Champion and he wears heavy armour. He also carries The Orb of Darkness which allows him the choice to roll a D3 at the start of either player’s Magic phase. Remove this many dice from both player’s magic pools.
While Barbaak Blacktounge is still alive, Farlund Chaoswalker may re-roll a failed attempt to cast a spell.
Farlund’s Book Guards
Farlund has 2 strong Book Guards who are bound through Black Magic to protect the book from all enemies of the Chaos Dwarfs. Because of this, the Sorcerer and his 2 guards must always remain close to the Circle of Books. They are Unbreakable, may not declair charges, and will never pursue beaten foes. The Circle of Books and crew have a unit strength of 5. No other characters can join the Circle of Books.
Also: Ghorth the Cruel is the most powerful Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer in the official fluff and Astragoth is the oldest, so you may want to take that into account since you’ve just said this guy is both the strongest and the oldest.
Well, he’s “Developmental” since I took a bathroom break and read the rules saying that Wizards can only go up to level 4.
However, the concept is there to have something simular to The Anvil of Doom. Besides, both Ghorth and Astragoth are from the 1995 rule book, which you were saying can’t be used.
No, I said the rules can’t be used. The background still stands. Or not - I mean, it’s your call, just be aware that there are already two characters that do the things your guy does.
As it’s vaguely related to what you’re talking about… I was thinking the Black Dwarf (if he was ever a chaos dwarf) could return as an avenging spirit that couldn’t travel more than 10" from an anvil. Would be awesome though, with magic missiles and everything.
Seems like a lot of rules, even for a special character.
I was just trying to make him match the AoD layout - with the Anvil, sorcerer, apprentice and 2 guards. Perhaps if I built a model of it, you’d see what I was getting at.
No one is confused by the idea - we just think it’s a lot of rules and, to be honest, what you’ve done is just come up with as many awesome rules as you can and assigned them to the model. He has six spells and casts them all on a 3+ with a re-roll? That’s immensely powerful - in fact, it probably makes him the most powerful wizard in the game. It certainly makes him better than either of the Tzeetch special characters in the new Warriors of Chaos book. An extra Attack and a 1+ armour save? On a wizard, that’s pretty crazy - wizards can’t usually get armour, so even a regular armour save is quite a significant boost for most, let alone a 1+ save. All this is in addition to a special ability that incapacitates any model within 24", that requires no roll to cast except for having to roll above a number that is almost never going to higher than 5 on 2D6.
505 points? Try tripling it. This guy could crush an army.
I’m aware the anvil is powerful - and the special character version is considered pretty unbalanced - but I don’t think it has a really good chance of immobilising a Bloodthirster that moves within 24" for the whole game: Bloodthirsters have a basic Strength of 6 - they would have to roll under this on 2D6 to avoid being “turned to stone” (which I assume means they get incapacitated - you need to define this effect better). That means they have to roll 5 or less on 2D6, which has only a 27.78% chance of happening. In other words, this guy can take out the most powerful model in the game almost three quarters of the time guaranteed.
Imagine what’d he do to a Strength 3 (the average in Warhammer) model - they only have a 5.56% chance of avoiding this effect. With a range of 24", that means all you have to do is plonk this guy down opposite the enemy’s most powerful unit, target the unit champion in the first turn and (I assume, but again you have to define the “turning to stone” effect better) you can immobilise that unit for the whole game.
That’s the best thing in Warhammer by a pretty significant margin.
As mentioned above, it’s somewhat overpowered. The premise is excellent, even though I, personally, dislike the idea of copying units from other armies (particularly with CDs and Dwarfs as they are good and evil of the same race, so need some differences).
I’d recommend looking at it again. Mayhaps have it work a bit like incantations from Tomb Kings instead, so it is effectively several D6 or 2D6 power levels. For example, give it 4 “spells” as such, each one with an improved version, like the AoD. The weak ones can have a power level of 2D6 and the powerful ones of D6 (meaning the more powerful ones are less likely to work). This isn’t so much to represent their power, so much as an attempt to make it easier to fail (much like the AoD has them cast on 2+ or 3+ or whatever and then power of the Ancients is 4+ or 2+ or whatever).
Well…maybe I should have sat down and thought this through more yesterday before I posted it.
First off, I read in the Rules that a Wizard can only choose 4 spells from the Magic list. Level 4 is the limit, not Level 6. I should have read that BEFORE I read all the spells. Instead, I was thinking that it would be great for a wizard to use all the spells on the page instead of just selecting 1 or 2 - or even 3 or 4. Also, that he could be any type of wizard instead of just stuck as a Fire Wizard, Death Wizard, etc. Per game he is 1 type, but overall, he can be any type as the books contain a LOT of knowledge.
Secondly, the immobilization spell came from the 1995 Warhammer Presents : Chaos Dwarf book - which I couldn’t quite figure out, but sounded Kool. I just wanted to give this guy something “More” than the 6 spells, like how Thorek Ironbrow has all his tough armour, magic hammer, etc. Also, because a Sorcerer can carry 1 hand weapon, I figured mine should too, not as a front line fighter, but to defend himself in case an enemy Calvary Unit charged him. (Like the Wood Elves)
Thirdly, I was just trying to figure out a way to use my model kit pieces of the 6 books I bought from Games Workshop as well as the BFSP Cannon crew. Since AoD has 4 characters with it, I figured that my Sorcerer Lord should too. But Kraggi uses his tongs as a weapon and his leather apron counts as light armour. The BFSP Cannon Ball guy could become a Crystal Ball guy, but it seemed stupid if he was hitting people with a crystal ball when attacked or wearing a leather apron. Instead, I thought he should have some kind of spell or magical item, represented by the Crystal Ball.
Then I started to “convert” the AoD into this Chaos Sorcerer and it all fell appart from there.
Well yes it is a powerful thing you got there hows about you make it some sort of alter to Hashut and sometimes you can someon an avatar of Hashut himself?
But I see you way your heading and I like it keep it up
Not necessarily, but now that you’ve presented the idea, we’re giving feedback. Hopefully, to be taken constructively. I’m a bit under it all, hence the lack of suggestions, but all you need to do is revise the fellow.
You can have him as a level 4 wizard, using 6 spells if you wanted though, there’s no problem with that. No problems with choosing any of the lores, but I’m not sure that fits with the CDs, mostly because of how difficult it’d be to find such information and if they did, they’d allow access to it by the head sorcerers at least, even if not others.
Not a problem to take inspiration from a previous spell, but it’s best to make sure you understand it and/or convert it to be in-keeping with current rules and style, then possibly change it to be more fitting to current fluff and whatnot. As to the armour front: the Dwarfs aren’t casting, they’re unloading as such. I think a 5+ AS with some special rule (-1S to chargers or something) would be fine, but no better than that. The staff’s spell should have a weakness, such as a power level or requiring to pass a Ld test or somesuch. As for in combat, have it count as a magical hand weapon. if you REALLY want to spice it up, either count as a halberd (non-magical) or a bray-staff (non-magical).
The si books could be the three spells (and their improved versions) that I suggested earlier or they could be the 6 spells of the lore or be scenic or anything. No problem with their being four characters. Personally, I think a daemon-trapping orb is more fitting than a crystal ball. they don’t seem to be a very fortune-telling-esque race, IMO. Leave him as is, but remove the re-roll and replace it with +1 to cast, has the statline of a normal CD (but still counts as a champion for challenge purposes).
Increase the points as well.
not sure how good or balanced my suggestions are, but they sound a little more fair than what you’ve presented. (BTW< forgot to mention, no 3+ to cast all his spells!)
Farlund Chaoswalker, Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer Lord - Master Wizard of Hashut and Holder of The Ancient Texts (revision #1)
Farlund Chaoswalker is the most powerfull of all the Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer Lords. He is as equilly feared as he is revered throughout the Dark Lands. He has sucessfully found a way to slow down the Curse of Stone that overtakes the lesser Chaos Dwarf Sorcerers. In fact, he has slowed it down so much that some say he is the oldest of all the living Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer Lords, living well beyond 1000 years.
It is only fitting that Farlund Chaoswalker is the holder of all the ancient spells and texts dating back to the first Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer. Through centuries of study in each spell book, Farlund has mastered many skills in the black arts, most of which are not known to the lesser Sorcerers.
Farlund’s vast library is too large to carry into battle all at once, so he only takes 6 of his best spells to thwart his enemies. Depending on the curcumstances of the battle, he can choose 6 spells from one of the Fire, Metal, Shadow or Death Lores of magic from the Warhammer Rule Book.
In addition to his books, he also brings his newest apprentice, Barbaak Blacktounge to assist him in his magic spells as well as 2 Black Orc Guards to protect the ancient knowledge from falling into the wrong hands.
Farlund Chaoswalker can be taken as a Lord Choice in a Chaos Dwarf Army, but will also take up one of your Hero choices as well. He must be fielded exactly as presented and no extra equipment can be bought for him. The cost of his spells, Circle of Books, Barbaak Blacktounge and the 2 Black Orc Guards are included in his total cost.
Points: 500 (?)
Weapons: The Staff of Stone
Magical Items
The Staff of Stone: Farlund Chaoswalker is the only known Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer Lord who has sucessfully defeated the Stone Curse inherant to all Chaos dwarf Sorcerers who dabble in the Black Arts. He has done this by harnessing the curse into a magical staff which he uses to tellecast it upon his enemies.
From a range of 24 inches, Farlund can aim his staff towards an enemy model and instill him with the Curse of Stone. The victum slowly turns to stone from his feet upwards. (A Power 2 Spell)
To perform any action, the affected model must first roll under his strength charateristic on 2D6 at the start of every turn. If he suceeds, he can perform his turn as normal. If he fails, he is turned to stone until the spell can be dispelled, Farlund decides to release him by choosing another enemy or until Farlund is destroyed. Farlund can only cast this spell on one enemy model at a time. Represent this spell by placing a tolken marker beside the affected model. Farlund can choose to end this spell in his turn of the magic phase by removing the tolken from the table. He can then re-cast the spell on a model of his choice in his next magic phase.
Should Farlund enter hand to hand combat, the Staff of Stone gives Farlund a +1 Attack Characturistic.
Circle of Books
Farlund Chaoswalker always brings 6 of his best spells with him into combat. However, he can only choose these 6 spells from the 4 Lores common to all the Chaos Dwarfs. Which set of Lore spells he brings to the battle are determined by rolling a D4 at the begining of the game.
To choose his magic arsenal, start by rolling the D4. A roll of a 1 means that he has the six spells from the Fire Lore. A roll of 2 gives him the spells from the Metal Lore. A 3 on the dice gives him the Shadow Lore books and a 4 grants him the Death Lores of magic. Farlund can use all 6 of the spells common to that 1 Magical Lore.
The books have a magical aura of protection surrounding them that allows the unit a +5 ward save against enemy attacks.
The Sorcerer’s Apprentace. - Barbaak Blacktounge is a young Mage learning his craft from the master of all Chaos Dwarf sorcerers. Although he hasn’t been casting spells as much as Farlund and is nowhere near as powerfull, he has a natural aptitude for Divination as proven by the magical crystal ball he carries with him. This ball is known as The Orb of Darkness.
Barbaak Blacktounge is treated as a Unit Champion for combat resolution.
If the unit is attacked from range by a missle attack, The Orb of Darkness which he carries with him allows him to transmute any missle attack damage umongst the unit. Missle fire is randomized against the unit by rolling a D6 : 1-2 hits Barbaak Blacktounge himself, 3-5 hits one of the Black Orcs and a 6 hits his master, Farlund Chaoswalker.
While Barbaak Blacktounge is still alive, Farlund Chaoswalker may re-roll any failed attempt to cast a spell.
Farlund’s Special Black Orc Book Guards
Farlund has 2 very strong Black Orc Book Guards who are bound through a hypnotic Black Magic spell to protect the book from all the enemies of the Chaos Dwarfs. From their exposure to the power of the books, the 2 guards have grown very tough skin. This skin gives them 3 wounds as opposed to the usual 1 wound that a regular Black Orc would have. However, to keep these two guards from fleeing, they are chained to the sorcerer’s pedestal by two Titanium chains that extend 2 inches. Because of this, the Sorcerer’s two guards must always remain close to the Circle of Books. They are Unbreakable, may not declair charges, and can never pursue beaten foes. In addition to this, the Black Orc Guards carry 1 shield and 1 axe each. They also wear Heavy Armour.
M WS BS S T W I A LD
Farlund Chaoswalker 3 5 4 4 5 3 3 1 10
Barbaak Blacktounge 3 4 3 3 4 2 2 1 9
Black Orc Book Guards 2 4 3 4 4 3 2 1 8
The Circle of Books and crew have a unit strength of 5. No other characters can join the Circle of Books.
Points Calculation
Farlund Chaoswalker (Sorcerer Lord Level 4) - 190+35 = 225
Barbaak Blacktounge (sorcerer level 1) - 65 = 65
Black Orc Book Guards (2 Black Orcs at 13P+1 Shield) = 28
Orb of Darkness (Modified Gauntlets of Bazhrakk) = 20
Staff of Stone (Modified Sorcerer’s Curse 1995) = 120
You’re mixing rules (or at least notation) from different editions. “Power 2” refers to how many Power cards would have been needed to cast it using the old magic system - it’s about the equivalent of a 7-9+ spell these days.
The problem is that you’re turning that spell into a special rule. Spells work in a specific way and can be stopped in the normal course of events (using dispel dice) - your special rule is just an amazingly powerful ability. If it was a spell, it’d be about as hard to cast as the most powerful Tzeentch Lore spell. Also, the rules from WD presents CD were for a totally different edition when wizards were much more powerful. That spell, as written, wouldn’t exist in any way shape or form in 7th Edition. It’s massively, massively good. It can essentially remove a Bloodthirster from a game 75% of the time.
You haven’t really toned him down at all, because he still has his most powerful ability intact. Having to roll less than your Strength characteristic on 2D6 is just not fair at all. Try 1D6 for a start, then make it a bound spell with a power level of 4 or 5. That way the victims actually have a chance to protect themselves instead of just being zapped automatically.
