Zhorn:
I played my first games using the new list vs. ogres and empire.
I used units which don’t seem too hot just to check out if they could work, and in what way. I sometimes use units in test games in suboptimal ways to see what they can do and what they cannot do. Also, i haven’t had a chance to play vs. the new ogres at all so extra fun and exciting games!
List
Prophet, lvl, 4+ward, scroll
BSB, 2+ AS, black hammer
demonsmith, lvl 1, luck shield
23 IG, banner of +1 movement (BSB+Lord here)
20 HG, shield, m, st.
20 HG, shield, m, st.
30 HG, second hand weapon, m.
1 magma cannon
1 shrieker
1 shrieker
6 BC, fc
K’daii destroyer
5 wolfriders
5 wolfriders
Reasoning:
Prophet costs an arm and a leg - so keeping him as cheap as possible while still maintaining some survivability was key, since we went into the main combat line.
BSB was a bit of a gamble on the defensive side but i wanted to try out the ashstorm+black hammer combo as well as giving my main unit some much needed punch.
Demonsmith to laserguide the artillery.
20 strong HG to divert and stop small threats.
30 strong HG as throwaway damage unit.
Bull centaurs to give some punch (and, well: they’re BULL CENTAURS!)
Artillery self explaining. 2 cannon/mortar machines should be able to deal with masses and massives alike. Magma cannon for all around fun.
1x wolfriders to help out the BC (screening, diveritng) and 1x for general nuisance.
K’daii because it is fun to have your own hellpit abomination.
Opposing armies:
Ogres:
Slaughtermaster, BSB, firebelly, 16 ogres (BSB+general), 6 ironguts (dragonhide and firebelly here - ouch! badass combo), leadbelchers, maneaters (scout, stubborn), mournfangs, ASL monster/stonethrower.
Empire:
Archlector, BSB, priest, lvl2, 2x 50 halbardiers (one priest each to give hatred), big flagellants, big greatswords, mortar, cannon, hellblaster, detatchments en masse, 40 handgunners.
As you can see, both opposing armies were non-optimized, with the empire army bordering on fluffy (but not tame) and the ogre army certainly stronger.
Impressions:
20 strong HG w/shields units didn’t work at all. Won’t include them again. Not fast enough to divert, not steadyfast enough to block. The ogres just rolled them and the empire army scattered them with mortar fire and detatchments.
30 strong HG worthless. Did nothing against ogres (3 maneaters ate them with no casualities in return…) and even against empire they did nothing. Their biggest downfall is their bad initiative, at least at the task i gave them (softening up the enemy).
23 IG not big enough/too big. Too many points in one place (esp. w/ BSB+lord) and not enough staying power. They did alright (eating the irnonguts w/firebelly - who died to BSB + black hammer in one fell swoop), but since my opponents assessed them as THE victory points everything was directed at them which meant that - despite being hard as nails - they lost numbers far too quickly. If the opponent has tar pits, they lack the killing power to get out of traps even with prophet and BSB.
Against the ogres they died against the 18 strong ogre unit w/ 2 characters in the end, since they were not fast enough and there was not enough hard hitting support to turn the combat.
Against Empire they survived (the champion) and preserved their VP but ultimately they got robbed of their support again and encircled by superior forces (of units as well as numbers). Luckily - since the Prussians didn’t come - night fell and they survived.
Bull centaurs didn’t do anything for me. I say “Meh!”. Good defensive qualities, but severely lacking in hitting power. for nearly 350 points they were easily stopped by even support units (handgunners tied them up infinitely, leadbelchers the same). And, comparing them to mournfang cav which is in the same ballpark points wise - uh, uh, i cry. 6 attacks + impact hits vs. 2 attacks…
Really disappointing.
Artillery: 1A bang bang. Especially the shrieker is a bargain for it’s points. Only downside is “only” strength 8, which did cost me in the artillery duel with the empire. Against armies like ogres they need some kind of guard units, but against the Empire (war machine hunters) they did marvelous.
Wolfriders so-so. Cheap enough and fast enough to pull some tricks, but once operating behind enemy lines way too unstable.
K’daii: Fantastic. Really, it is just that good. It burned half of the big ogre unit all by it’s lonesome and rolled an entire empire flank alone.
Conclusion:
Hobgoblins either as 40 (or maybe 20 w/bows). The small and cheap units didn’t work (which was to be expected, but still i had to try). And even 40 won’t do a thing against an army like ogres.
Infernal Guard. Sigh, i’m not sure what to do with them. I’m unhappy with the huge points sink with 2 characters in the unit and using them as a main battle line will make them even more expensive (think 33+characters) and will loose you some games (dwellers…). In a gun line perhaps 15 armed with fireglaives solely as a mage/BSB bunker. They performed alright, don’t get me wrong: They suffered all 3 ogre template weapons + a ‘dangerous’ forest and were still able to defeat the unscratched ironguts despite ASL. But then, that was 900 points vs. 450 points… The movement banner helped a lot but maybe the razor standard is needed, too! (Well, ironsworn are needed - but way, way too expensive!)
Bull centaurs, as written above, are a huge disappointment. The chaos dwarf list in general seems to lack hitting power, apart from the K’daii there was no serious threat to my opponents and nothing to support the HG/IG. I’ll use a single hero next time w/1+ AS and crown, for less points, nearly the same killing power and serious staying power.
A second magma cannon (w/ demonsmith) would make the army way, way harder but i want my gaming partners to have some fun, too! I have only good things to say about my artillery choices but will go with a 4th artillery piece the next time: A hellcannon. The hellcannon will secure/anchor a flank while pounding even the hardest enemy troops into pulp (well, only if it doesn’t misfire on the first shot… - but wait! It is a chaos dwarf war machine! Go demonsmiths!).
I feel the mix of 1 magma and 2 shriekers is a really good one, keeping the points cost low, giving multiple options against a wide variety of threats and still keeping my opponents from lamenting too much (“I only spend 350 points on artillery! Really, that is not too much. Remember that dwarf army from last week?!” )
The K’daii is a “must-have”, it is that good. I will convert a LotR Balrog as fast as possible and unleash it’s terror on each and every army i meet. (Both of my opponents said that “that thing is seriously scary shit! Please leave it at home!”) I’m pretty sure dragon princes will become the new black around here.
Wolfriders. I will loose one unit and replace it with a hobgob hero on wolf. Better leadership, more hitting power, less hitpoints but better save. The eagles of the chaos dwarf army.
The characters:
The BSB needs more protection. Still, the black hammer is just made for our lore, so it stays in. The prophet is perhaps not a must-have, but the CDs shine in conjunction with “ash storm” (ash storm + K’daii = serious hurt! Ahs storm + black hammer = serious hurt! Ash storm + magma cannon = serious hurt!). The demonsmith is worth every single point and i would probably include him even without being a mage and able to carry the scroll.
The lore of hashut is cool and feels a bit mandatory - but then i rolled ash storm in every game, and maybe it is just the ash storm spell which is mandatory. It is huge, huge, huge. Stopping a unit from charging, making it flammable THEN pounding it with laser guided artillery is priceless. The charge-stop is gold against a slow, non-hard hitting main combat line.
All in all, everything is way too expensive. (Kidding. Not everything.) Not enough hitting power at the front lines and even though our castellans, our prophets, our demonsmiths are really good - their high points cost do add up way too fast, which leaves not enough points to buy multiple non-suboptimal units. Especially the bull centaurs (and, i assume, the little K’daiis) are really not very funny with their lack of killing power while bleeding points costs out of their ears (Mournfangs - Bull centaurs. Bull centaurs, Mournfangs…)
Since i don’t fancy gun lines but artillery is one of the main strength of the book (i’d even go so far as to say that it is rather cheap and a total bargain, bordering broken when included in high numbers) i’ll keep the artillery pieces low in numbers and tinker with bull centaur heroes and wolf rider heroes. I’ll also experiment with prophet-less armies, but fear i will miss ash storm dearly.
It seems to me that the strengths of the list are characters, and artillery, together with the K’daii (which is unfortunately too expensive to include 2 in games under 3000 points).The “true” chaos dwarf units (infernals, ironsworn, bull centaurs) are ok-ish (naked infernals) to bad/wrongly priced (every other option/unit). While looking for alternatives to the BC, i skimmed over the iron demon and it struck me that that thing it utterly useless vs. most armies out there: Against ogres it would have done nothing at all (yay! for 3 strength 3 attacks…) and even the empire would have stopped the thing cold in it’s tracks with a 5 strong unit of plain old knights. And, unfortunately, every army has access to something akin to plain old knights. Far too specialized, like the rest of the hitty stuff. I’ll try it out, for sure in one of my future games but i’m rather pessimistic about it’s performance, once the opponent knows how to stop it.
And here endeth the story, still on the search for a unit with killing power (apart from the lovely K’daii and the character killer combo ash storm + black hammer).