Discoking:
I don’t mean to be a Buzz Killington…
But isn’t it a “Dark Castellan” as per the FAQ?
Nicodemus:
I don't mean to be a Buzz Killington...No, it's the other way around. On p189 of the Tamurkhan book the rules for the Battle Standard Bearer states "One Dark Castellan in the army...". The FAQ says to "substitute �?~Infernal Castellan�?T for �?~Dark Castellan�?T"
But isn't it a "Dark Castellan" as per the FAQ?
Discoking
:cheers
MLP:
Yep, just to confirm (because the FAQ wording isn't perfect in my opinion) Forgeworld have it labelled as Infernal Castellan on the website.
No, it's the other way around. On p189 of the Tamurkhan book the rules for the Battle Standard Bearer states "One Dark Castellan in the army...". The FAQ says to "substitute �?~Infernal Castellan�?T for �?~Dark Castellan�?T"
:cheers
Nicodemus
Discoking:
Doesn't that mean, "Ignore 'Infernal Castellan', as it should be 'Dark Castellan'"?
No, it's the other way around. On p189 of the Tamurkhan book the rules for the Battle Standard Bearer states "One Dark Castellan in the army...". The FAQ says to "substitute �?~Infernal Castellan�?T for �?~Dark Castellan�?T"
:cheers
Nicodemus
As there is also:
"Pg191: Infernal Guard upgrade options �?" substitute �?~Deathmask�?T for �?~Overseer�?T"
Even though they have the same stats, lol.
Yep, just to confirm (because the FAQ wording isn't perfect in my opinion) Forgeworld have it labelled as Infernal Castellan on the website.Yes I can appreciate that... however -
MLP
Shouldn't the FAQ override the sales website?
Hehe.
Thommy H:
No, if you substitute Noun 1 for Noun 2, you end up with Noun 1.
MLP:
No, if you substitute Noun 1 for Noun 2, you end up with Noun 1.I just find that "substitute �?~Infernal Castellan�?T for �?~Dark Castellan�?T" is a little confusing and could be taken both ways quite easily. It could have been better represented with "Replace �?~Dark Castellan�?T with �?~Infernal Castellan�?T".
Thommy H
Thommy H:
Nope, there’s only one way to read that sentence. If you’re substituting something, you replace it. And since “Infernal Castellan” comes first in the sentence, that’s the one that’s doing the substituting, and “Dark Castellan” is the thing that’s being substituted.
MLP:
Nope, there's only one way to read that sentence. If you're substituting something, you replace it. And since "Infernal Castellan" comes first in the sentence, that's the one that's doing the substituting, and "Dark Castellan" is the thing that's being substituted.You should be an English teacher. I now understand completely!
Thommy H
Discoking:
But it says “substitute Infernal Castellan…”.
As in “Take away Infernal Castellan”.
“for Dark Castellan”.
As in “Replace with Dark Castellan”.
As is the case with the FAQ on the Deathmask/Overseer…
cornixt:
I’ve split this off from the Infernal Castellan thread.
Discoking:
I've split this off from the Infernal Castellan thread.Thanks Cornixt -
cornixt
Sorry to cause trouble with this grammar implosion.
It looks as though my English Degree was a complete waste of time!
Thommy H:
But it says "substitute Infernal Castellan...".You can't just split the sentence in two like that ;P
As in "Take away Infernal Castellan".
"for Dark Castellan".
As in "Replace with Dark Castellan".
Discoking
If you substitute something, you take it away, yeah. But if you substitute something for something else, you're replacing the second something with the first something.
I think what might be making it confusing is that the most common use of the word "substitute" in British English is in when talking about football and, in that context, when you substitute someone for someone else, the person being substituted is the one being removed. This is actually a technically incorrect usage of the word - when something substitutes something, it actually takes over from it. Think of the term "substitute teacher" (whose the substitute there? It's the one who actually shows up to teach the class...)
And, having looked this up, this is actually a common source of confusion: see Usage Notes here.
So I guess they could have worded it better but I'm 99.9% certain the intention is for Infernal Castellan to replace Dark Castellan (i.e. substitute, rather than be substituted).
Discoking:
After going over this I have clarified that your explanation is the correct one.
Substitute has been confused by me for the word ‘replace’. Ironic.
However… As per the intended use of the wording found in the FAQ…
I believe FW have made the same mistake I have.
My reasoning for this is the fact that the FAQ for the Deathmask/Overseer has the same grammatical formula.
Confirming that they intended to errata the book to Dark Castellan?
Thommy H:
How do you know they didn’t just word the Deathmask/Overseer bit wrong? You’ve established they aren’t infallible…
Given that “Infernal Castellan” makes more sense than “Dark Castellan”, the former is used on the website, and I don’t think the wording is that confusing, it’s probably fairly safe to say it should be Infernal Castellan.
Discoking:
I know they’re not infallible.
Although… in the book it says Deathmask.
In the FAQ it wants to change the wording to Overseer, right?
The next part of the FAQ is the Infernal/Dark errata.
With the same structure.
Thommy H:
Both “Overseer” and “Deathmask” appear on page 191, and the Errata is specifically replacing the bit in the upgrade options - which says Overseer. So it should actually be Deathmask thoughout (which is what appears in the profile on that page and in the bestiary).
Marduk:
This is a very interesting discussion. I thought my mind was clear before the thread. Once I started reading it I became very confused.
Finally, I think I have understood the explanation and I hope I will use the “substitute X for Y” phrase properly but I am not 100% certain. And the worst thing is that I don’t remember how I used it before reading the thread.
In some way, it reminds me of marriage.
Thommy H:
This is a very interesting discussion. I thought my mind was clear before the thread. Once I started reading it I became very confused.Hey, that's the English language for you!
Finally, I think I have understood the explanation and I hope I will use the "substitute X for Y" phrase properly but I am not 100% certain. And the worst thing is that I don't remember how I used it before reading the thread.
In some way, it reminds me of marriage.
Marduk
There aren't many other languages where it makes perfect sense to say to someone who jumps onto a bus without paying: "Hey, come on: get off!"
Discoking:
Hehe, to most other languages “Tuesday night” is an odd expression.
Discoking:
Both "Overseer" and "Deathmask" appear on page 191, and the Errata is specifically replacing the bit in the upgrade options - which says Overseer. So it should actually be Deathmask thoughout (which is what appears in the profile on that page and in the bestiary).Ah-haha... This has all been for nothing then.
Thommy H
Ignore me, lol.