I need to clarify I’m doing this correctly; when I declare a charge with my Iron Daemon, I’ve been treating it like a Doomwheel - pivot on the spot, roll dice, hope I smash into something. What I’m curious about is am I allowed that initial pivot?
If yes, does it have a 360 degree charge like a Doom Wheel? I can’t say I’ve ever tried it but it would be a neat feature! Obviously I’m not a Skaven players or I would know these things…
If no, how is a charge handled when the Iron Daemon is in an enemy’s flank but moving the ID straight forward would contact an enemy’s other facing? It seems like it would ridiculously easy to stop it from charging all game doing this.
I don’t think you get a pivot. It says that it works differently to the normal rules for charging, and that it simply move directly forward without turning.
"rather than
using the normal rules for charging or marching, roll 2D6 and unless
a double 1 is rolled then add this number to the Iron Daemon�?Ts
movement score for the total distance travelled. The Iron Daemon
moves this distance forward in a straight line and may not turn or
wield as it does so. If a double 1 is rolled, then something has gone
wrong and the Iron Daemon does not move at all this turn.
If a charge is being attempted, this must be declared as normal before
the extra movement amount is rolled, and if failed (ie, the distance
rolled for movement is insufficient to reach the target unit), simply
move the Iron Daemon forward the rolled distance instead."
I don’t have the book here at work but this is the text from the pdf.
distance and fire its weapons without penalty while doing so.
Alternately, it may choose to engage its steam boiler�?Ts power and
move faster, but this is hardly a precise art"
This means that if you want to change direction in a turn with the Iron Daemon you may only do so with its normal move, if you wish to move faster than it’s regular movement in a turn ot attempt to charge, it uses the above rules- you do not get to make a turn first, it is governed by the special iron daemon march/charge rules. So, yes it’s very hard to pull a charge off except by runing it headlong into something that has nowhere to move in the next turn, and the enemy can simply flank charge the iron daemon with a poo unit to halt it, it can only fight back with the crew from the side
The best way I’ve found of using it is too have it flanked by two units and set slightly back, so it can’t be charged by anything except from the back. Then you can charge in one of your flanking units and follow it up with a charge by the iron daemon. alternatively, if one of your flanking units is charged, you can counter charge with the iron daemon.
It seems like it would ridiculously easy to stop it from charging all game doing this.
You don't get a pivot, it just moves straight forward when it charges. That's why you take 2-3 of them. 1 on its own is utter balls.
it can only fight back with the crew from the side
Eh? It Thunderstomps like a monster, facing has nothing to do with it.
Its also worth noting that if you don't declare a charge and instead just move into contact with a target during normal moves, they don't get to declare a flee reaction ;) They get ASF for that round but really, who cares when you're T8.
It seems like it would ridiculously easy to stop it from charging all game doing this.
You don't get a pivot, it just moves straight forward when it charges. That's why you take 2-3 of them. 1 on its own is utter balls.
it can only fight back with the crew from the side
Eh? It Thunderstomps like a monster, facing has nothing to do with it.
Its also worth noting that if you don't declare a charge and instead just move into contact with a target during normal moves, they don't get to declare a flee reaction ;) They get ASF for that round but really, who cares when you're T8.
Baggronor
Thunderstomp at the end of combat round two yes, held up for a turn at least?
Because it fights as a chariot, but gains a thunderstomp attack like a monster in an ongoing combat ‘after the first round’- not simply just being a monster with a thunderstomp. The rules imply that if you charge something with it, your first round of combat hits are only from impact hits and crew, and your second round of combat is thunderstomp and crew. So if you are charged, round one: only the crew fight. Also dont forget, a thunderstomp only works vs infantry, swarm or warbeast units.
Oh hey, you’re right: the rules specify the Thunderstomp only works in the second round onwards. Another reason to never, ever take this terribly-designed unit!
Just look at this thread: we’ve got a whole load of experienced gamers here discussing how it charges! Why does it have to be Unique, exactly? It should just be a Monster with the option for Random Movement (2D6) or something. Give it some riders following the same rules as the Arachnarok, etc. and 0 Attacks and it would work exactly like it does now without any confusion.
Because it fights as a chariot, but gains a thunderstomp attack like a monster in an ongoing combat 'after the first round'- not simply just being a monster with a thunderstomp. The rules imply that if you charge something with it, your first round of combat hits are only from impact hits and crew, and your second round of combat is thunderstomp and crew. So if you are charged, round one: only the crew fight.
Actually, it’s not even an emergent property of the rules - it just says straight out that you only get to Thunderstomp from the second round onwards. It should probably be a bit more prominent, because I never noticed it before either.
You really need support units to babysit these guys it looks like. You may need to have 2+ iron daemons rolling, with 2 units of either wolf riders or paired khans to protect them. It’s just so many points.
You really need support units to babysit these guys it looks like. You may need to have 2+ iron daemons rolling, with 2 units of either wolf riders or paired khans to protect them. It's just so many points.
fattdex
I've had this discussion (via email) with the Forgeworld guys, but to no avail.
As Thommy correctly said, the only thing preventing me from fielding this thing is its own rules. It MUST charge in a straight line. It does Impact hits or Thunderstomp (apart from 3 WS4 S3 attacks).
It is meant to be unstoppable engine of destruction, yet a flank charge from an eagle or a mounted model with a decent armour save will stop it in its tracks.
Big pity. If only they allowed it to charge like a monster & grind like the doom wheel/steam tank it would be ok. If they allowed it as a mount for a Daemonsmith that would be awesome !!!
They actually replied to you and said that the unit is functioning as intended?
Interesting.
I’ve been having great luck running 2 of them in tandem this weekend. And that’s despite misfiring with one of them on the first turn of two games, doing 5 and 6 wounds respectively.
Early game, I use them simply as an artillery piece. Hit big monsters, cav blocks and support units.
Mid to late game, they’re the Unbreakable anvils that force the enemy into tough positions.
Yes, it’s hard to charge with them. And it’s bothersome when they get bogged down. I find that they, more than any other unit force you to think ahead. At least one turn, if not two.
So with the iron daemon is there really any point to declaring a charge? If you just engage the boiler and hit them the only bad thing that happens is that your crew strikes last, with the benefits being that your opponet does not get a charge reaction and if you fail to reach your opponent you still get to shoot.
I intend to run mine in tandem with a unit of K’daai fireborn. They will stick unit place so I can line up a charge.
I had wanted to use a skull cracker, but I just can’t justify it with the rules (had hoped to get a FAQ) at least with the basic daemon you can shoot the thing at ogres and what not. Plus a demon bound iron daemon is a complete nightmare for etherial units (particullary the slann).
Gee guys I don’t mean to be rude but I disagree with EVERYONE here.
Where does it say it needs to charge in a straight line. It says, and I quote:
"ALTERNATIVELY it may choose to engage its steam boiler’s power and move faster . . . IN THIS CASE, RATHER THAN USING THE NORMAL RULES FOR CHARGING OR MARCHING . . . "
In other words, if you want to "engage the boilers and charge 2D6 plus the movement, then yes your charging/marching in a straight line, BUT, if you don’t want to “engage” the boilers than "use the normal rules for charging or marching."
Now if I’m wrong about this, then they wrote some misleading and convaluded rules, but that’s what it says so I’m not sure how I’m wrong.