Thommy H:
If you read a bit further, you’ll see it says that if you don’t use the special movement to charge, you don’t get the Impact Hits and any enemy unit you’re in combat with gets ASF.
Agalstrax:
I´m sorry. I have to ask an offtopic question:
If you read a bit further, you'll see it says that if you don't use the special movement to charge, you don't get the Impact Hits and any enemy unit you're in combat with gets ASF.
Thommy H
What´s an ASF?
fattdex:
Always strikes first.
Agalstrax:
Thank you
This message was automatically appended because it was too short.
thrawn:
i don't have my book in front of me as i'm at work, but i'm pretty sure it says that only happens if you "accidentaly" charge a unit. in other words, you march, roll really high and hit a unit without declaring a charge, as it goes on to explain what happens if you hit one of your own units (resolve impact hits as normal, then move back 1") but it does not say anywhere that's what happens if you don't "engage" the steam boilers. i'm going to contact Forge World.
If you read a bit further, you'll see it says that if you don't use the special movement to charge, you don't get the Impact Hits and any enemy unit you're in combat with gets ASF.
Thommy H
frostbit3:
you are reading it selectively. it states that the daemon moves up to its normal movement and may fire the cannon. then your ALTERNATIVELY comes in. either you engage the boilers or you move up to its movement characteristic. there is no implication that you can choose to march as normal or charge as normal.
thrawn:
you are reading it selectively. it states that the daemon moves up to its normal movement and may fire the cannon. then your ALTERNATIVELY comes in. either you engage the boilers or you move up to its movement characteristic. there is no implication that you can choose to march as normal or charge as normal.however there is no implication that it MUST march/charge in this manner.
frostbit3
here is another example.
you can drive your car down a hill and coast. alternatively you can step on the gas and go faster, but this is not safe, so you cannot turn at the end of the hill into your drive way.
that statement above is the same as what's in the Tamerkhan book. it does not state that you MUST step on the gas, but also does not specify if you can just "coast" as normal.
Thommy H:
Here is a better example:
"You can drive your car down a hill and coast. alternatively you can step on the gas and go faster, but this is not safe, so you cannot turn at the end of the hill into your drive way."
Therefore, by your logic, your car can fly. Since it wasn’t mentioned that it couldn’t…
The Iron Daemon can do one of the following:
- Move up to its Movement characteristic in inches, pivoting and turning as normal.
And that’s it. It can’t charge or march normally.
KramDratta:
This, which is half the reason you don't see it mentioned more in army lists.
The Iron Daemon can do one of the following:
- Move up to its Movement characteristic in inches, pivoting and turning as normal.
And that's it. It can't charge or march normally.
Thommy H
fattdex:
The solution to making it useful is to drive it sideways
thrawn:
i see. well therefore yes it does suck. so much potential too.
Here is a better example:
"You can drive your car down a hill and coast. alternatively you can step on the gas and go faster, but this is not safe, so you cannot turn at the end of the hill into your drive way."
Therefore, by your logic, your car can fly. Since it wasn't mentioned that it couldn't...
The Iron Daemon can do one of the following:
- Move up to its Movement characteristic in inches, pivoting and turning as normal.
And that's it. It can't charge or march normally.
Thommy H
Ender SpiteSworn:
I finally went back and re-read the rules and I don't agree that you do not get the impact hits on an "acidental" charge. You resolve those as normal (freind or foe) and if you are into a foe then they get the always strike first rule (so they will likely re-roll their to hits), which is no big deal. You also don't get the +1 for charging.
If you read a bit further, you'll see it says that if you don't use the special movement to charge, you don't get the Impact Hits and any enemy unit you're in combat with gets ASF.
Thommy H
So basically if you are on a mid to long range charge, if you don't make it an official charge and just fire up the boiler, you will still get to fire your cannonnade, but if you hit them then they will get the always strikes first but you will still lock them down and get your impact hits. So I ask again, isn't it usuall better to not officially declare a charge?
Da Crusha:
It seems better to never declare a charge. but if you used it like that you would be bound to get a lot of flak about the list being pure cheese.I finally went back and re-read the rules and I don't agree that you do not get the impact hits on an "acidental" charge. You resolve those as normal (freind or foe) and if you are into a foe then they get the always strike first rule (so they will likely re-roll their to hits), which is no big deal. You also don't get the +1 for charging.
If you read a bit further, you'll see it says that if you don't use the special movement to charge, you don't get the Impact Hits and any enemy unit you're in combat with gets ASF.
Thommy H
So basically if you are on a mid to long range charge, if you don't make it an official charge and just fire up the boiler, you will still get to fire your cannonnade, but if you hit them then they will get the always strikes first but you will still lock them down and get your impact hits. So I ask again, isn't it usuall better to not officially declare a charge?
Ender SpiteSworn
Thommy H:
I never said you didn’t get Impact Hits for not declaring a charge - you get them if you use its special boiler movement, but if you don’t declare it as a charge, the enemy gets ASF “owing to the confusion on board”. So I guess if you’re okay with that, then sure.
nilbog:
So then:
You can move up to its normal move and shoot if there are targets to shoot at. If you move normally and contact a unit, you don’t get impact hits (the train is moving too slowly), it is also ‘accidental’ and the opponent gets ASF;
You can roll for extra movement without declaring a charge, but only move in a straight line. If you contact a unit, you do impact hits (because a train moving at this speed is bound to cause some damage) but again the oppoenent gets ASF;
You can declare a charge and roll for extra movement (again only moving in a straight line), you get impact hits, the opponent can declare a charge reaction, combat is as normal.
The second option might seem like a way round the restrictive rules for the iron daemon, but it’s also not really playing fair; in an army that is already struggling to be accepted and has access to the destroyer, magma cannon and hellcannon, is this the image you really want to project about chaos dwarfs?
Thommy H:
Right, except in the first case you can’t accidentally contact a unit because of the usual rules about staying 1" away.
Baggronor:
Right, except in the first case you can't accidentally contact a unit because of the usual rules about staying 1" away.It specifically says you can though. Somewhere in the massive wall of text that you're expected to memorise to use the bloody thing :)
Thommy H:
What a stupid unit.
MLP:
What a stupid unit.Totally agree. I don't even consider it in my lists as I couldn't be arsed to explain its rules to my opponent.
Thommy H
zhatan87:
It specifically says you can though.Seriously? Where?
I've read again, and I see two points : "if the total movement" and "unintentionally". How can a "control" move be "unintentionally", and total movement refers "obviously" to the total amount of the dices...
And if you are right, why shouldn't the iron do impact hits??
(I'm talking about the first case described by Nilbog)
Am I the only one to read it thus? I would like to have a "better" iron daemon (and clearer) than what we have... But it seems to be a very "unfair" way to play it...