Just a quick rule clarification, I was in a game against the new Wood Elves and my opponent apart from raining down poison arrows on my warmachines pointed out that an Iron Daemon cannot march.
I understood the rule for lumbering and unstoppable to be you can move up to 6�?� without penalty to your shooting, however if your declaring a charge it�?Ts the same as everyone else 2D6 plus standard movement in the direction your facing.
My question is technically, can an Iron Daemon march?
Don’t have Tamurkhan to hand, but fairly sure it can’t. It can move up to its M value for no penalty, declare a charge as normal or move 2D6+M if I remember rightly and those are the only options.
The rules for that machine are just so freakin’ dumb.
An iron demon is treated as a chariot, but has unit type: unique. But it does affect movement, single model, doesn’t have to wheel, free pivot on the spot.
The iron demon can move in two way.
1. It moves 6’’, turn it around, do a free boogie woogie, pivot, face the enemy. A real little acrobat there. After this it can fire with no penalties. Ex: Move 3 inches forward, free pivot, 2 inches forward, free pivot, 1 inch forward, free pivot. Shoot the weapons with zero penalty.
2. It cannot march (it’s a chariot). But it can move 2d6+6’’ straight ahead. No maneuvering what so ever. Immer gerade aus. This is also the move you have to do if you want it to charge. Declare a charge, do the above, if failed move the distance rolled + 6’’ (unlike other failed charges that’s only the highest dice). You can still make it into combat without declaring anything, still do impact hits, but the enemy gets a bonus fighting you.
Now, I question I have. Since the iron demon can’t march, but rather does an alternative move, and the rules state in 1 “no penalties here”. Can the iron demon fire after 2d6+6’’ with the normal penalty for moving?
Now, I question I have. Since the iron demon can't march, but rather does an alternative move, and the rules state in 1 "no penalties here". Can the iron demon fire after 2d6+6'' with the normal penalty for moving?
Bloodbeard
@ Bloodbeard: I would say no as the rule states "Alternately, it may choose to engage its stream boile's....., roll 2D6".
Steam cannonade doesn’t have move or fire, so it can move and shoot, even if it moves with engaging boilers, altought the normal penalties for moving and shooting apply.
Keep in mind that if you declare a charge, and fail to reach the target you are not allowed to shoot, becouse failed charge stops you from shooting. Thats also one point why you should never declare charges with the ID, just drive normally into CC and if you fail to reach the target you can still blast away.
Side note: Without the FAQ, since the weapon doesn’t have move or fire, the ID would even be allowed to stand and shoot, but alas, the FAQ denies us of that sillyness…
You cant actually ever declare a charge with it. If it makes contact it counts as charging yet by the oddness that is ForgeWorld writing team it DOES NOT GET THE +1 FOR CHARGING!!! Now that is a real wtf kinda thing. It is a random movement that is horrible gimped and also for whatever reason it may never over run or pursue. Now I am sorry but that only makes kinda sorta sense to me. Sure its hard to get going so it can’t just up and chase some one, but it if blows through a unit you mean to tell me that massive steam powered heavy as hell machine just stops? Have you SEEN what happens when a giant machine blows through something? Trust me a steam roller just dose not stop moving.
1. It moves 6'', turn it around, do a free boogie woogie, pivot, face the enemy. A real little acrobat there. After this it can fire with no penalties. Ex: Move 3 inches forward, free pivot, 2 inches forward, free pivot, 1 inch forward, free pivot. Shoot the weapons with zero penalty.
Bloodbeard
Steam cannonade doesn't have move or fire, so it can move and shoot, even if it moves with engaging boilers, altought the normal penalties for moving and shooting apply.
Keep in mind that if you declare a charge, and fail to reach the target you are not allowed to shoot, becouse failed charge stops you from shooting. Thats also one point why you should never declare charges with the ID, just drive normally into CC and if you fail to reach the target you can still blast away.
Side note: Without the FAQ, since the weapon doesn't have move or fire, the ID would even be allowed to stand and shoot, but alas, the FAQ denies us of that sillyness...
Jorma
@Jorma: Taking in to account your comments and Bloodbeard�?Ts comments. Are we saying that the ID has the following options:
1. You can pivot the ID; and
2. then engage the 2D6 plus 6 movement; and
3. However if you make it in to combat you don�?Tt get the +1 impact hit and they have ASF; or
4. If you don�?Tt make into combat you move the distance rolled +6; and
5. The ID can shoot the enemy with the Steam Cannonade?
Am I reading this correctly?
If this is correct, then the ID is a go-kart in the shape of a tank wheeling around the battle field with a sawn off shot gun attached Wow!!
“If a charge is being attempted, this must be declared as normal before the extra movement amount is rolled, and if failed just move the rolled distance forward”.
But if you hit a unit by mistake with the boilermovement, and you haven’t declared a charge. Say you have 18’’ to the enemy and roll double 6, didn’t count on it, but it happend. You still get impact hits, but no +1 CR bonus for charge and enemy get ASF.
You could always “accidentally” make a charge in the way Bloodbeard described above, but do so when the enemy is 1" away. Highly frowned upon though, much like using the Chalice between casting and enemy dispell, but some opponents are asking for it…
@ Bloodbeard & ThorAxe: Just so I fully understand, do you agree with the 5 steps?
I really appreciate everyone�?Ts patience with this topic, but I really want to fully understand how to correctly play the ID.
Wolf
The step 1 is wrong, you cannot pivot before engaging boilers, also step 3 you don't get +1 Combat resolution for charging but you make normal 2+D6 impact hits.
You could always "accidentally" make a charge in the way Bloodbeard described above, but do so when the enemy is 1" away. Highly frowned upon though, much like using the Chalice between casting and enemy dispell, but some opponents are asking for it...
I have been playing with CD a year now and never have I declared a charge, my opponent understand that it's much better choice to just try and drive normally to the enemy since they dont get a charge reaction, and if I fail the charge I still get to shoot. It's a win-win for me so why wouldn't I do it? Only time I think a charge should be declared is when theres a low LD unit close to the table edge and you can force a Terror check them out of the table.
�?� You can pivot the ID just like a Chariot and then move up to 6�?� and shoot steam cannonade without penalty; or
�?� Engage the boiler and move 2D6 plus 6 movement in a straight line, if a charge is declared and you hit the target you receive D6+1 impact hits; or
�?� Engage the boiler and move 2D6 plus 6�?� in a straight line as a normal movement; however
�?� If you make it in to contact with a unit, you only receive D6 impact hits and if it is an enemy unit they receive ASF; or
�?� If you are unsuccessful in reaching a unit, you move the rolled distance +6�?�; and
�?� The ID can shoot an enemy unit with the Steam Cannonade, however it suffers -1 due to the movement & shoot penalty?
Wolf
I agree with these rule interpretations. I must ask: If you don't declare a charge, but still hits the opponent unit with a boiler move, would they be able to make a charge reaction?
I agree with these rule interpretations. I must ask: If you don't declare a charge, but still hits the opponent unit with a boiler move, would they be able to make a charge reaction?
Malorndk
No as it's not a true charge. It's the same as if a Chaos Spawn or any other unit goes into a unit due to random movement.
Random Movement (xD6) is a special rule with specifics regarding its movement. We have an ID with some quite unique (and extremely badly worded) rules. Aren’t we the cheaters, if we just assume the badly worded rules was Forgeworld trying to say “It has Random Movement 2d6+6”?