[Archive] Is this true!?

Lord maklai:

I stopped by my local game store today whilst out in the town and i (may have) discovered a terrible truth!

Apparently, chaos dwarfs are NOT a legitimate army that are usable in the stores OR tournaments, is this right! Please tell me it ain’t so!

Is it true and if so every time you use Chaos dwarfs in a tourney is counts as regular dwarfs? Please i need to know!

snowblizz:

There’s no blanket rule.

When I run my tournament I can decide to ban Deamons, Skaven, Ogre Kingdoms or whatever for absolutely no reason what so ever other than that I can. “Them Orcs were looking at me funny like, they are not allowed”.

Most official GW tournaments no longer allow Chaos Dwarfs on frivolous grounds that “you can’t get the rules and people don’t know the army”.

Last year GW’s 'Ard Boyz allowed them in the US.

Basically, you need to check with the tournament organiser.

Charoar:

I checked Adepticon and it allows both Chaos Dwarf lists.

Neil:

They are not currently officially supported by GW, and although they still have a valid rule set (although you will have to get that off the internet too), you can no longer buy the models new and most players who began playing after 2001 won’t have come across them.

As a result they cannot be used at offical GW tournaments. In non GW tournaments and GW shops you will need to check with the tournament organiser/shop manager i you can use them or not.

At clubs and Indy stores you should be fine.

Lord maklai:

Firstly, i’ve heard people go to games day with chaos dwarves so please explain that. Second what do you mean by both army lists? There are two?:o

Grimstonefire:

Games day you just bring and play don’t you? Nothing to stop people bringing CD I would think.

Strange that GW wouldn’t want people playing with them in stores though, if they are based on GW models I don’t really see the problem?

Baggronor:

I can’t use em in the UK, at stores or GW tournaments. Most independent ones don’t seem to allow them either. Usually enter as Dwarfs.

Second what do you mean by both army lists? There are two?
Ravening Hordes and the Indy GT army book (fan made).

cornixt:

Most reasonable stores will allow them. They even allow Warhammer Ancient Battles in most stores and they don’t even use GW miniatures.

There is always the chance of a stupid employee who claims it is against some made up store policy or something. Then you just have to state “I’m using GW converted models, in a 7th edition Warhammer game. Next you will be telling me that I can’t use any scenario that isn’t in the rulebook or models that don’t have the official GW colour scheme. If you don’t want me to spend my money in here on your books and models then please give me the contact details of the manager or regional manager.”

Lord maklai:

…the guy i talked to WAS the manager…yeah…

Thorne:

....the guy i talked to WAS the manager.......yeah....

Lord maklai
Then he wants you to go out and buy the dwarf army book and then a whole new battel for skull pass and then a dwarf battalion ... Oh wait a CD in another form ;) Many people have took it upon themselves to use the dwarf army book and blattantly show big hats and stick it to the rules boys and those that lets face it I have citadel models older than most of the staff that stock the shops.

Thommy H:

Most official GW tournaments no longer allow Chaos Dwarfs on frivolous grounds that "you can't get the rules and people don't know the army"
To be fair, you can't get the rules (legally) and people don't know the army. People probably need to accept things like Chaos Dwarfs not being officially supported at GW stores and events and move on, because it's kind of just the way it is.

KramDratta:

Just my 2 cents.

Has GW ever released some article saying that Chaos Dwarfs are no longer official, or is this because you can no longer find Chaos Dwarfs (Fantasy) models on the GW site?

If no Errata/FAQ says otherwise then they are legally allowed, since on pg 265 of the 7th Edition BRB Chaos dwarfs are listed.

or am I mistaken?

Thorne:


To be fair, you can't get the rules (legally) and people don't know the army. People probably need to accept things like Chaos Dwarfs not being officially supported at GW stores and events and move on, because it's kind of just the way it is.


Thommy H
Oooooh Tommy has spoken therefore it is ! But serriously one day chaos dwarves may get a official update maybe not, Im hoping for the maybe but to say they are not a legitamate army is truely unfounded and as for saying that you have to use the dwarf book it aint so bad. If we want to play them propperly then get a copy of ravening hordes and if you cant get that then the tourney one works. Not all games are played in gamesworkshop stores and we are all entitled to have a lot of fun so do as you feel.

Thommy H:

This is the problem: there are different definitions of “official”.

You and the person you are playing against can play Warhammer any way you want to. You can use any army, any house rule and any models you want. There is no such thing as “legal” in any real sense. It’s your game, and you should do whatever the hell you want.

But, Games Workshop stores are part of the corporation and have to promote the corporate message. So you can’t show up and play Warmachine, because GW don’t sell Privateer Press figures, and it would make no sense for them to promote their competitors. You wouldn’t expect to be able to buy parts for a Ford in a Mercedes garage, would you? Similarly, GW Tournaments are, by definition, a promotional tool for GW products. They only let you play with their rules and their figures because that’s what they sell.

So, if you define what’s “allowed” by what you can use in a GW store or event then, yeah, are you really that surprised that they won’t let you play with rules they no longer sell or have on their website, and figures they no longer produce? It makes no sense. It’s false advertising, because what if some kid sees your army and wants to know how to get his hands on those figures? The GW guys have to tell them they can’t get it, because it’s not available any more. You don’t put out of stock products in your windows, so why would they let you use out of production toys on their tables?

It may not be pretty, but it makes sense to me.

Thorne:


This is the problem: there are different definitions of "official".

You and the person you are playing against can play Warhammer any way you want to. You can use any army, any house rule and any models you want. There is no such thing as "legal" in any real sense. It's your game, and you should do whatever the hell you want.

But, Games Workshop stores are part of the corporation and have to promote the corporate message. So you can't show up and play Warmachine, because GW don't sell Privateer Press figures, and it would make no sense for them to promote their competitors. You wouldn't expect to be able to buy parts for a Ford in a Mercedes garage, would you? Similarly, GW Tournaments are, by definition, a promotional tool for GW products. They only let you play with their rules and their figures because that's what they sell.

So, if you define what's "allowed" by what you can use in a GW store or event then, yeah, are you really that surprised that they won't let you play with rules they no longer sell or have on their website, and figures they no longer produce? It makes no sense. It's false advertising, because what if some kid sees your army and wants to know how to get his hands on those figures? The GW guys have to tell them they can't get it, because it's not available any more. You don't put out of stock products in your windows, so why would they let you use out of production toys on their tables?

It may not be pretty, but it makes sense to me.


Thommy H
Sad fact but I totaly agree.

Lord maklai:

You touched on a vital issue there, where in the north east of the uk can i play and buy warmachine?

Thommy H:

You can buy it from the internet. They have that up north now, right?

Lord maklai:

You can buy it from the internet. They have that up north now, right?

Thommy H
...............maybe............;P;P Yeah but i am more concerned about where i can play it

Bolg:

I just played a very big (but not officially GW) tournament in Belgium (full tilt, 112 players) Chaos Dwarfs were legal, will attend ETC (European Team Champion ship) later this year, that with more than 20 country’s 8 players per country. Chaos dwarfs are legal there to. So I see no reason to worry.

And as I and many other players here use official GW models for our armys (and that a lot of vanilla dwarfs, still in store) GW should be bonkers to ban them from official tournaments.

I dont know about the Dutch grand tournament, but I will try to bring Chaos Dwarfs this year and if they dont let me I will make a big fuss about it.

Tarrakk Blackhand:

Oooooh Tommy has spoken therefore it is !
All Hail Thommy! Let those that oppose us DIE!

....but seriously folks!

Show that manager the back of the 7th edition book where it lists the Chaos Dwarf army stats and then open your wallet, take out $400 and tell him that he's just lost himself a customer. Then put the money back and storm out.