Method:
I bought the majority of my CD army from a website in China for a lot less. I have some of it as real FW, which will be my front ranks, but everything else is a knockoff. The quality is about 95% of what I would expect from FW, and once painted I doubt anyone will be able to tell they are not official.
Call me what you like, but if I can't afford something that I want, and someone else can provide something similar, I'm going with the other person.
Proof
Cobra7
hey man,
pm me that website. im down for those.
warh:
Let’s make this simple.
Do you want someone to steal something you made and earn money on your expense? No you don’t.
French_noodle:
I am very surprised some of you consider this website as an opportunity…
If you disagree with GW/FW prices, which i do understand, there are many other models makers, some of them making great chaos dwarfs models, for cheaper, and most of time with a very good quality.
Give your support to someone who makes models, not someone stealing the work of others !
There is no “this is the market law, this guy found a way to sell me FW products for a better price, i don’t want to know how, it is just fine with me”, this is stealing !
Do you think GW deserves to have products stolen is their shops just beacause they are expensive ? Come on, is that the way you want your children to be educated ?
Honestly, i think this is totally wrong. And i think talking about it here makes far too much publicity for these stealers. In my opinion, this thread should be closed, deleted, and this subject prohibited.
This is illegal, and there are many very good reasons for that, no matter how rebel anyone could be.
++
Baggronor:
the really isnt a good reason not to. Most people arent so idealistic when it comes to downloading music/movies etc. That said; being truthful and about getting it cheap can make you somewhat of a pariah on GW fan forum. The old "honour" of nerd-dom shows up alot. the sad thing is most the same players will bi*** at the next GW price increase (due next month)
Now look, I have run GW fan web-sites (the ole warhammerusa ranking site before i merged with andrew's rankinghq, i am a TO, and very active in the community. so i don't bash GW at all.
BUt gw doesnt cater to early 30's professional with their rules or target demographic.
soo i am sacrificing for what exactly?
You're sacrificing for the good of the hobby that you play, and to support honest trade. These knock-off merchants are thieves, pure and simple. Supporting them will encourage counterfeits and ultimately damage the hobby and the companies that make the miniatures.
Example: Manga publishers are in a lot of trouble now, as everyone shares the comics online, so sales are going down the toilet. End result? Lots of manga publishers fold, meaning less manga, and the stuff that does exist is as mainstream as can be because they can't pay any wages to creators whose style isn't 'optimised', leading to a decrease in interesting, innovative titles and a fall in quality overall.
So, at the point that the super-niche Chaos Dwarfs are finally being produced again (a big risk by FW and one they had no obligation to take at all, as they could quite happily have carried on making Space Marine extras for far more profit) are you really going to buy knock-offs from some scummer in China? What's he done to deserve your money? He's stolen from what I presume is one of your favourite companies. And sure, as far as economists say, that's fine as he isn't breaking any laws; but considering where the world is today, I don't really rate their opinion much.
Ultimately, I suppose it comes down to whether you want to see more risky, interesting ranges like CDs in the future or not.
Thorne:
I am in agreement with this whole idea of selling things that are fake repoductions of other peoples works. Reguardless if they are games workshops works of individual peoples hard earned and sculpted models. The whole concept goes against everything that Chaos dwarves online stands for.
I myself thing Gamesworkshop in the long term will end up ricing themselves out of there own market but in another way without the funds and profits that these models bringin GW will die leaving the whole product less than worthless.
But you are doing more than that. Im not instantly saying that your local hoby store that retails GW stock that also sells none GW products will suffer leaving that place that you go and play shutting the shop for the last time as soon as these people making repoductions of GW items realise that a market is here for them to make the same product at a cheaper price the bottom may fall out of the entire market.
Its no better than walking into a GW store and taking things off the shelves and walking straight out of the stores.
I know you may say to yourselves that Thorne doesnt really like GW and that certainly is the case. But what I HATE even more is people that are shamelessly stealing other peoples works be it a GW model or any other tradeable item its theft.
As has been asked before that this thread should be closed, deleted, and this subject prohibited. But I dont think that this should be the case. The more that people know about the topic the better informed that they can be about theft either IP or copywrite
You can argue till the cows come home in this reguard but still buying these items from a chinesse webstore is not the same as ordering them from the owners of the masters in the first place even if the result seams to be the same.
tvandyke:
Here’s the thing. I’ve been playing this army since 1996 and have always had to live with the fact that it’s been considered a niche army by GW that whole time. I didn’t mind it. I liked going to the Games Workshop Grand Tournaments knowing that I’d probably be the only one playing the army. It was rare. However, there’s a difference between little support and no support. GW stopped allowing the army in their GT’s in 2008 and around the same time stopped selling the models (even though at the time they were only available through bits orders). Basically, it went from little to no support. Since then most of us have been holding our breath hoping they’d bring this army back to life. They finally did even though it came from Warhammer Forge and not the main studio, however, that was fine with me. The army at least is supported, there’s new models, more models on the way and for the most part is considered legal just about everywhere. I was hoping beyond hope that this project from WF would be a success, so I did my part. So far, I think I’ve spend over $1200 on CD models from FW. I have no problem with it. I only have to buy it once. I’ve done this even though I’ve got about 6000 points in painted big hat models. I think if you’re a long time CD devotee like myself, you’d also want to support Forgeworld if you’re able instead of someone stealing their product. It makes no sense if you’re actually hoping to see continued support of the army.
If you want an analogy, here’s one. Probably one of my all time favorite book series is the Song of Fire and Ice series by G. R. R Martin. The series that the HBO Series Game of thrones is based on. I was excited beyond belief that HBO decided to do it and I haven’t been disappointed so far. I’m worried that HBO will end up cancelling the thing before they tell the whole story like they do so many of their other great shows (Deadwood, Rome, etc). So far, the show has been a major success for HBO so far, so good, but I also just read an article yesterday that it’s the most pirated TV show this year (it was #2 last year). That crap drives me crazy. If you like the show and want to continue to see it on the air then pony up the $12 a month and pay for it. Don’t steal it. I have friends of mine that are big fans of the books and show but download it from pirating sites to watch it and it really irritates me. They have good jobs and can afford it but feel if they can get it for free, why not? I try to tell them to look at the bigger picture. If you want to see this show go for the 7 or 8 seasons it will need to then pay for it. Buy the DVD’s. Do something to support it, otherwise it will be gone and no one will get to enjoy it.
khedyarl:
What I don’t fully understand is where this sense of entitlement comes from. If you want a game that is cheaper, then go play a game that is cheaper. Games Workshop isn’t selling an item required for survival - its a niche hobby product (most of which, as pointed out in this thread by others) are equally, if not far more expensive. If you disagree with their sales practices, then exercise your power of market sway, and don’t buy their product. That is how the market is set up, individuals collectively determine via buying habits which companies survive and which do not. Knock-offs are protected against by almost all western law, trying to get around that by stating that Chinas lax copyright law allows for it seems disingenuous at best.
Method:
Who said anything about a sense of entitlement?
i think yes, the makers of the products should be supported.
(And most of us have, myself purchasing 600 bucks from forgewrold)
That said, i have downloaded music/movies (after having seen avengers in the theatre)
Basically, yes people should support the hobby. But im not blind, and know many,many players if given the opportunity would buy fakes (if they were ordering from the privacy of thier homes.)
There is not enough pirated models to dent gw or forgeworld.
So let people make the best decision for themself. The game is in more danger of going down because their price increase, than someone selling 3 knockoff kits.
Thommy H:
Yeah, guys - it’s fine to do bad stuff if loads of people do it. Don’t you know anything?
French_noodle:
This is just incredible…
I think it is REALLY dishonest to pretend you’d buy FW only if it was cheaper. If FW was cheaper, the knockoff would be even cheaper, and you would buy on these thieves’ website anyway.
As often in a niche market, price is not the real problem. This website gives a 50% bargain, so no matter if it is on 10$ ou 100$, the bargain would remain the same, and the act of giving money to award those people for their great capacity to steal others and make good use of it, would also.
I have a chaos dwarf army, only big hat, which i bought pieces after pieces, beacause it was an old dream. I earn really few money with my work (don’t know how it is in your country, but in France i have the minimum salary you are allowed to give someone who works for you), so i had to wait to have the money.
I don’t download mp3, i buy cd’s or listen to music on grooveshark.
Damn, it is really easy to enjoy your hobbies, remain honest, and still have money to take your girlfriend out in good restaurants. Just accept maybe you can’t have immediately a 3000 pts CD army from forge world without making sacrifices, as everyone does everyday in the world.
I totally don’t understand you.
Kera foehunter:
Its time to stop kicking this dead Horse…
All was said … there nothing that could be added …
unless you want to talk about how nice I’am and your going to buy me a forge world chaos dwarf army.
then carry on
yanloup:
I agree my French mate :cheers
Plus, I find FW models expensive and terrible.
So, Big Hats FTW :hat off
wallacer:
Partly it’s due to a shift in societal attitudes.
As western society becomes increasingly decadent people become more self-absorbed and have an increasing sense of entitlement.
The self reliance that once defined the west (and made it great) is largely a thing of the past. Nowadays people are selfish, self absorbed, and have a breathtakingly arrogant sense of entitlement.
The copyright breaching isn’t really what worries me. What worries me is the fact that it is a symptom of a far bigger problem. A problem which, I suspect, the west does not have the strength of will to solve.
I’ll do my bit by supporting WF though. It’ll be a cold day in hell before I help destroy my own civilisation by sending money to those thieving parasites in China.
Thommy H:
I’m pretty sure humans have always been awful, actually.
CopperPot:
Has anyone noticed the Fireborn up for sale on the UK Ebay site they look suspicious to me.
Now the reason I think they look suspicious is that he is already on his second set of fireborn selling wise, the first three models sold for less than £10 each so he hasn’t made any profit if he has bought them for £36.
Also he has had a complaint by someone saying he has been sold a recast forgeworld model which was refunded straight away.
Sorry for taking this thread of topic abit not being China/Hong Kong knock offs but theirs no point me starting a new thread.
gIL^:
Has anyone noticed the Fireborn up for sale on the UK Ebay site they look suspicious to me.
Now the reason I think they look suspicious is that he is already on his second set of fireborn selling wise, the first three models sold for less than £10 each so he hasn't made any profit if he has bought them for £36.
Also he has had a complaint by someone saying he has been sold a recast forgeworld model which was refunded straight away.
Sorry for taking this thread of topic abit not being China/Hong Kong knock offs but theirs no point me starting a new thread.
CopperPot
There will also be Knockoffs and there is little we can do about it.
If the items are wanted they will be provided from another source than GW. It might not be the best thing for GW and everyone has an opinion good or bad about recasts but they will not disappear.
Best thing to do is report them and spread the word about dodgy dealings.
snowblizz:
And sure, as far as economists say, that's fine as he isn't breaking any laws; but considering where the world is today, I don't really rate their opinion much.
Baggronor
No self-respecting economist will say that. Everyone with the education knows that doing is bad. We call it unfair competitive advantage (or something) which is detrimental for economic development.
javi:
This is just incredible....
I think it is REALLY dishonest to pretend you'd buy FW only if it was cheaper. If FW was cheaper, the knockoff would be even cheaper, and you would buy on these thieves' website anyway.
As often in a niche market, price is not the real problem. This website gives a 50% bargain, so no matter if it is on 10$ ou 100$, the bargain would remain the same, and the act of giving money to award those people for their great capacity to steal others and make good use of it, would also.
I have a chaos dwarf army, only big hat, which i bought pieces after pieces, beacause it was an old dream. I earn really few money with my work (don't know how it is in your country, but in France i have the minimum salary you are allowed to give someone who works for you), so i had to wait to have the money.
I don't download mp3, i buy cd's or listen to music on grooveshark.
Damn, it is really easy to enjoy your hobbies, remain honest, and still have money to take your girlfriend out in good restaurants. Just accept maybe you can't have immediately a 3000 pts CD army from forge world without making sacrifices, as everyone does everyday in the world.
I totally don't understand you.
French_noodle
This, this and 1000 times this!, Quoted for the truth. You cannot afford to get 60 IG plus 3 war machines?, mate, save some money or buy some similar models from cheaper companies. The fact that you cannot afford it does not give you the right to steal it!!. Just wonder what would it be if everyone here bought this fakes models? How badly are you willing that FW finally sells K'daai Destroyer or BC's? MAKE IT HAPPEN, support the guys doing the job. The main issue seems to be that some people think oneself is not part of the whole, that it does not matter if they act wrong, as most of people will be acting right.
Javi.
rpitts2004:
i would not play anyone who had these knock offs indirectly your suporting almost slavery and childrens labour. if you need models that badly proxi
richard barby
How would you tell that they are knockoffs if they were painted? Do you also only play against christian white people?
rpitts2004:
You should be able to order anything from Forge World through your local retailer or GW store. By doing this you will avoid the shipping fees. Support your retailers. Support the companies. It is a win win.
Valrim
I confirmed this with a few GW stores, as they do not order Forgeworld anymore only warhammer world will have forgeworld available for purchase and order (minus gamesday)
