So the latest link over on BoLS = Latest O&G Rumors outlines what’s rumored to be changing in the forthcoming Orc & Goblin army book for 8th ed. If you visit GW’s website their graphics have been updated with Goblins lurking around and peeking out from behind things - probably hinting at next week’s pre-release announcement.
I still use the Ravening Hordes list, so this news is of particular interest to me - at least until we see what the Warhammer Forge Tamurkhan book has in store for Chaos Dwarf Generals or for possibly including Chaos Dwarfs in Warriors of Chaos army lists.
At any rate here’s the summary of the bits of interest to some of us:
�?� Animosity unchanged.
�?� Musicians now cost the same as a standard bearer (so Orc Boyz pay 10pts to upgrade to a std or musician)
�?� All Orc weapons are now Choppas (including Spears, magical weapons etc). They also confer their strength bonus in the first round of combat even if there was no charge. Goblins certainly do not get this benefit. Their weapons are still normal.
�?� Orc Boyz and Orc Arrer Boyz are +1pt
�?� Orc Boyz may add an additional Choppa for +1pt
�?� 1 until of Orc Boyz may add upgraded to Big Unz for +2pts/model (down from +4pts/model)
�?� Goblins may upgrade for ½pt/model (e.g. spears)
�?� May upgrade individual models to Nasty Skulkers. They hide in the unit like Fanatics. When they are revealed they get ASF and Killing Blow
�?� Black Orcs now cost 12pts/model, down from 13/model and are immune to psychology
�?� Sounds like Bolt throwers can misfire much the way Skaven things do, so perhaps Hobgoblin Bolt throwers will have to be re-cast in this light as well (i.e. in an addendum to the CDO Errata for the RH list)
That’s about it for now. The rulebook will be over 112 pages and will be hard cover.
Could be interesting. My greenskins are on hold until the new book, thus the Tzeentch mortals.
If Orcs got a bit better, I might want to field a few units now. All weapons being choppas would be big and, depending on other factors, may want me to switch to spears… Especially if I do go for savage Orcs (assuming they come out with plastics).
I am very curious about the new book and how different it really will be, if at all aside from the hardcover.
Could be interesting. My greenskins are on hold until the new book, thus the Tzeentch mortals.
If Orcs got a bit better, I might want to field a few units now. All weapons being choppas would be big and, depending on other factors, may want me to switch to spears... Especially if I do go for savage Orcs (assuming they come out with plastics).
Swissdictator
Savage orcs are also on the horizon. The rumors there are that savage orc boar boyz will co$t the same at the regular ones.
Apparently the Savage Orcs come ~11 to a box, which is a funny number but there's apparently a huge stone axe that requires two models to hold it, so one of those 11 has something to do with this optional weapon. We'll see if those rumours hold water soon...
Oh, and I almost forgot:
Animosity This is apparently going to get more complex and this will be of utmost importance for anyone using Hobgoblins, not just O&G models! No idea how much more involved it may get, it may mean more varied types of things can go awry, but the rumour mill is saying that the negatives are offset by having greater positive benefits when things go 'right'.
Sounds interesting. Im not looking forward to a hard cover though, probably just to jack up the price.
Da Crusha
Yeah, makes it an easily defendable stance for a higher price point. What I'd really like to see is better quality images in colour in their books. A lot of other companies seem to have this down to a science and they're able to deliver gorgeous full colour rule books for decent prices. Time will tell.
I’m pretty excited about new orcs. My big hopes are for a) plastic savage orcs, b) decent common goblins and c) Making more selections viable - 'ard boyz, all mounted, goblin horde.
If you’re not bothered about the rules that is still a lot of money to pay, but from what I gather all army books (and presumably codexes) are going this way.
If you're not bothered about the rules that is still a lot of money to pay, but from what I gather all army books (and presumably codexes) are going this way.
Grimstonefire
I was afraid of something like that.
And there lies part of the problem. Most of us don't particularly need a £30 O&G collectors miniature gallery background sourcebook with some rules. We need an armybook at half that price with rules in it. And even at that people feel they pay too much for just the rules.
If you want to read all about the wacky colourschemes, well there's the market for the Uniform and Heraldry books.
The two main issues here is that again we are raising the stakes of those wanting to enter the hobby. And secondly we are forcing established players to pay for stuff they don't really need.
I won't be reading anything except the rules and armylist section more than once. And that only to check the rules. And I'll be using somekind of software and not pen and paper so even that won't be too often I think. I just can't fathom what they could put in the armybook that would justify the price.
Most of us don't particularly need a £30 O&G collectors miniature gallery background sourcebook with some rules. We need an armybook at half that price with rules in it.
Yeah, you say that, but everyone hated the 40K "mini-dexes" in 3rd Edition. And even 6th Edition Armies books in Warhammer got criticised for their lack of content compared to what came before. People obviously do want more stuff in their books, not just bare-bones rules, despite what the vocal minority online might claim.
I think the key issue here is that it will really reduce the number of people switching between armies
But, conversely, a quality product will make people buy it even if they don't want to use the army - from the rumours, I'm actually considering buying this just because it's going to have so much content, and I have no intention of playing O&G. I don't think the only market for Armies books and Codecies are the people who play those armies.
I can’t understand why on earth people wouldn’t want to read loads of fluff and look at reams and reams of new artwork and photos of amazingly-painted miniatures… but that’s just me I guess.
I think the key issue here is that it will really reduce the number of people switching between armies, which is something GW rely on.
I don’t think it will tbh. If you’re willing to spend a few hundred pounds and hours and hours of your life on an army, whats a one-off payment of 30 quid for a nice book full of stuff that will fill you with enthusiasm for your new army?
And even 6th Edition Armies books in Warhammer got criticised for their lack of content compared to what came before. People obviously do want more stuff in their books, not just bare-bones rules, despite what the vocal minority online might claim.
Quite so. Many of the online ragers are the same people who don’t care what their figures look like and do nothing but moan. Baffles me why they don’t just take up chess, that way no one’s army is broken, the rules are free and there is no fluff. Or maybe a one-off payment for a chess set puts them off
I can't understand why on earth people wouldn't want to read loads of fluff and look at reams and reams of new artwork and photos of amazingly-painted miniatures... but that's just me I guess.
Baggronor
Isn't that what the Net is for? I'd say it geta a bit blasé to see the same miniatures for 4-5 years and read the same stories until the book gets replaced and requires another "one time payment".
I think the key issue here is that it will really reduce the number of people switching between armies, which is something GW rely on.
I don't think it will tbh. If you're willing to spend a few hundred pounds and hours and hours of your life on an army, whats a one-off payment of 30 quid for a nice book full of stuff that will fill you with enthusiasm for your new army?
Baggronor
That's 30 quid you didn't really need to spend (well 15 when we talk about armybooks I guess). The same reason a lot of us don't buy the extra expensive collectors version in a metal box. We are perfectly happy with a less ostentatious version because it suits our purpose. If you ask me it's a deeply engrained human trait that we want "value for money". Preferably more for less as well. And best of all something for nothing.
It really doesn't matter to me that "it's just 30£ when you are spending hundreds" if I feel like that money is just buying me air. Which BTW I've done enough of thank you very much. The Germans owes me a lot of oxygen.
And even 6th Edition Armies books in Warhammer got criticised for their lack of content compared to what came before. People obviously do want more stuff in their books, not just bare-bones rules, despite what the vocal minority online might claim.
Quite so. Many of the online ragers are the same people who don't care what their figures look like and do nothing but moan. Baffles me why they don't just take up chess, that way no one's army is broken, the rules are free and there is no fluff. Or maybe a one-off payment for a chess set puts them off ;P
Baggronor
How about not belittling other peoples opinions, yes? I would thank you not to fob me off as an "online rager".
The fluffy bits in an armybook has a very limited shelf life for the gamer. When you start out you need some basic story to give you a feel for the army. And some nice pictures help too. But there's only so long you need to see those. It doesn't really matter in the long run whether there was twice as much material to begin with. It adds a day or two of reading. After that what you mainly need is the rules.
The armybooks so far have had just about right when it comes to content. Though they have been upping the size of the books. They do vary a fair bit in page count.
To me the current 8th ed trend has pushed the amount of content and therefore price way too high. The funny thing here is that e.g. for 6th ed I bought the rulebook and General's Compendium. Put them together and I guess you get the 8th ed rulebook, just about in content and price. But I didn't have to buy them at the same time, and it was *my* choice if and when I spent the extra and got the other rules.
It's quite obvious that I haven't bought the 8th ed rulebook either, yes? IOB with the next sale I find. If I want something more, well, that's why I'm here innit...
The fluffy bits in an armybook has a very limited shelf life for the gamer.
Maybe for you. Not for everyone though. I've gotten an awful lot of use out of the 8th Edition RFBRB and I think I've only played, like, one game of Warhammer since I got it. I'm more (much more) of a painter and collector than a gamer though, and the rules for me are mostly a way to structure my armies. In 3rd/4th Edition 40K, I only ever played Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Orks and Sisters of Battle/Witch Hunters, but I owned almost every Codex just because I liked fluff, I liked pictures of toys and I liked tinkering with rules (so I needed all the material to hand).
If what you mostly do is play games, and you're only interested in fluff to get a "feel for the army", then that's fine, but you may have to accept that you're not GW's target audience with 8th Edition. The guys in the GW studio are more interested in the overall product when they flog you a Codex or an Armies book than they are in producing a finely honed strategy game, or even in giving you the most bang for your buck in terms of "use".
It's a change I welcome, personally, because I'd rather see GW nail its colours to the mast with lavish books that emphasise fun gaming than try to pander to the tournament crowd. I don't mean to reductively boil the issue down to "fluff heads" and "WAACers" or whatever the preferred terms might be, but the nature of the internet is to divide debate into extreme camps.
Just saw on TWF someone quoting warseer that the book would be 29,50�,�. That’s still a good 7�,� more than normal books, but if it is twice the size and hardback it looks a lot more reasonable.
I’m still not convinced of the strategy with high entry barriers though.
Of course that is still what 80% useless material you are carrying along to game nights…
