Going to a tournament next weekend and have Skaven in my first match.
His list:
grey seer, scroll,
warlord, fellblade, shield
chieftan, bsb, storm banner
assassin, weeping blade, potion of strength,
warplock engineer, doomrocket, warp energy condenser, level 1 spells of ruin,
40 stormvermin, FC, Razor Standard
40 slaves
40 slaves
20 slaves
5 gutter runners
doomwheel
doomwheel
warp lightning cannon
warp lightning cannon
My list:
Prophet, lvl 3 Hashut, charmed shield,
Lammasu, level 1 fire, breath weapon
Castallan, bsb, 5++, shield, sword of might, Dragonhelm
Daemonsmith, level 1 fire, scroll, E.Shield
hobgoblin khan, wolf, dragonbane gem, relic sword, light armour, shield
20 blunderbuss, standard and musician, banner swiftness
20 hobgoblins, bows, shields, musician and standard
5 fireborn
destroyer.
I can change my list round now but want to know your advice on how to beat him. I am thinking get into combat quickly with the kdaiis into his stormvermin and try to do some damage with the Lammasu by flying behin him and ashstorming etc.
I am not sure about what certain things do:
1) Fell blade
2) Storm banner
3) Doomwheel
I am not too worried about the cannons as I am thinking I will only have to endure a turn of shooting before the kdaiis are in combat and he may roll low or even kill himself.
With this list, I don’t think you will beat him. The Skaven have you out-ranged so as soon as your K’daii Destroyer is dead (which will be REALLY fast!), he can either sit back and pound you with his cannons or, if you approach, tie you up with slaves. He has absolutely no reason to come to you with your current list.
I would drop the blunderbuss and bring get some extra infernal guard with handweapon and shields. Could give you 10 more guys.
I think it’ll be better to grind him down in close combat and make him break. Don’t think the blunderbusses will do enough.
Skaven are low LD - bring the mask of the furnace and get some easy hits.
With this many bodies on the table I would like a flame cannon or two.
Looking forward to hearing what will happen in the battle. Please share your experiences against the skaven army. I will properly play against skaven in a couple of weeks.
- Fellblade: makes the bearer ABSURDLY killy, but will probably kill him over the course of the game
- Storm Banner: stops all flying movement, and all non-magical shooting is penalized. I believe it is -1 to hit with BS shooting, and 4+ to fire for non-BS. Be aware that he can ground your Lammasu at a critical moment.
- Doomwheel: D6 auto hits at a S equal to the roll of an artillery die, magical and multiwound (I think D6, might only be D3). It will shoot the nearest thing every turn though, so keep the K’daii away from it. Actually decent in combat too and pretty tough.
I wish you had a substantial infantry block to shove up their guts. Either way, I think you are going to run to be very aggressive and move in on him as best you can. Maybe combo charge the mess out of something? Your kdaii probably wont make a decent speed bump against those storm vermin and I’m not sure who would go toe to toe with that Chieftan. Your troops are are generally better in combat than his so maybe if you can get a fight in your favor by taking the initiative and moving in on him in a way he doesn’t expect so that you are supported in a lop-sided fight of your choosing.
I don’t see how you can, but if you get a chance to take out his general this army will fall apart in a hurry.
Also I am going to recommend that you wear some sort of large chaos dwarf hat. That’s really the best thing you can do in this situation.
I wish you had a substantial infantry block to shove up their guts. Either way, I think you are going to run to be very aggressive and move in on him as best you can. Maybe combo charge the mess out of something? Your kdaii probably wont make a decent speed bump against those storm vermin and I'm not sure who would go toe to toe with that Chieftan. Your troops are are generally better in combat than his so maybe if you can get a fight in your favor by taking the initiative and moving in on him in a way he doesn't expect so that you are supported in a lop-sided fight of your choosing.
I don't see how you can, but if you get a chance to take out his general this army will fall apart in a hurry.
Also I am going to recommend that you wear some sort of large chaos dwarf hat. That's really the best thing you can do in this situation.
Glimpse the Void
lol,
The hat is definitely being worn this weekend! lol
So basically, my best tactic is to do what I, myself, do when fighting? - Run at my opponent as fast as I can, screaming and shouting and hit them quickly before I get mullered!
With this list, I don't think you will beat him. The Skaven have you out-ranged so as soon as your K'daii Destroyer is dead (which will be REALLY fast!), he can either sit back and pound you with his cannons or, if you approach, tie you up with slaves. He has absolutely no reason to come to you with your current list.
Grimbold Blackhammer
I think Grimbold is right...your list is not designed to fight a Skaven army. And you can't change your list? His use of the Storm Banner will negate your Lammasu from 'hopping' around, leaving your Prophet on an easy large target. One Khan on a wolf will not redirect his 140+ guys...and your list has no war machines :o
If no changing up your list...I would suggest that you play a castle defense in the corner of the table with your CD troops. Use the table edges as a 'wall' that can't be flanked (with over 140 guys and Doomwheels, an aggressive player will flank and break you with sheer ranks and flank/rear bonuses if you're in the open...so don't give him the ability to spam you), use your Hobbo's as chaff and get your Destroyer in combat using the lay of the land. Send him in quick with cover from buildings or whatever. He's gonna die...but I would send him in against the war machines and ignore his troops (depending on the table set-up for hard cover terrain, try to set him up at the opposite side of the table from your castle defense). The Destroyer is too expensive to waste time frying slaves...kill his war machines if you want a chance. And keep your fireborn away from the Doomwheels, fireborn stand no chance against D6 auto hits.
If I was the Skaven player, the only thing I’d move on turn 1 is both Doomwheels and they’ll charge straight at your K’daii. He’ll put all his magic at your K’daii. Assuming it is still alive, the Doomwheels will shoot it. If they don’t kill it, he’ll shoot at it with the cannons. Once the K’daii is dead, he will move his slaves forward but keep them in range of the general while he just pounds you with more cannons (Doomwheels at this point will either run away to save points or go after the little K’daii).
With that in mind, I’d move up the Destroyer timidly first turn and try to get a turn 2 charge hoping the over-run will get it into his lines. Beyond that, I see no path to victory =(
First, let me applaud you on your choice to come with your own list and not one you pulled from the internet.
Second, all hope is not lost. Unfortunately, you will have to snipe his characters but with a level 4, a level 2, and a level 1 you should have the spells to do it. You’ll want to take Fireball with your lvl one and go supernova or as charged up as possible each turn. This will draw out his dispell dice or it will put a dent in his units.
Next, shoot at a different unit. Skaven gain leadership bonuses due to complete ranks. Eliminate that first +1 merely by killing one rat.
In combat, and this is key, go 5 wide with the L’daai. Maximized this means that 10 rats are taking auto hits each round, before combat even starts. You will lose the fireborn either way, but this maximizes their offense and minimizes the risk of a flank charge.
Finally, use the Khan to keep a lane clear for the Deatroyer to get to the cannons, then eat his lunch. I would move your Blunderbusses up to get into shooting range quickly and do what damage you can there.
Unfortunately, this will likely be more a learning experience than an easy win at a tourney but you havent lost yet.
GDD makes an excellent point. If you opponent chooses to shoot at your K’daai or your Khan, then rush that Lammasu into the character star. Challenge away. If he chooses not to accept your challenge, then send his BSB to the back and hope he rolls high on any/all leadership checks. The Lammasu is the great equalizer, and you should easily kill his rat. Because after you take away the magic items, that’s all they are. Extra tough rats!
Also, with the Khan having the DBG don’t be afraid to combo charge with the K’daai. A 2+ is not fool proof, but it should give you enough confidence to get in there and scrap with the Fireborn or Destroyer. Use the khan to challenge any characters, then let the K’daai melt the chaff away. Even if the Khan loses/dies, your K’daai will likely go untouched because you diverted any magical attacks away from them.
Either way, take the time to ask questions before, during, and after the game. If you’re a good sport about it, then he should be willing to teach you about his army (probably after that unit has left the table, or crushed your own unit). Learn as much as you can and come better prepared next time.
Yeah look, I know this isn’t a great list. I am no newbie, I know that had I gone - block of GW, double hellcannon, level 4 hidden in a unit, magma cannons etc etc etc - I would perform better
but…
The army composition said "No comp, bring what you like"
And I thought, screw it. I have a beautiful unit of fireborn, I love my blunderbusses and I am determined to find a way of using a Lammasu competitively.
plus…
If I do manage to win my game against Skaven with this list, I will go down as a legend, well maybe. lol
Seriously though thank you for the advice and especially for your positive encouragement The FNG.
Don’t be surprised if some or all of his army blows up, poisons itself or generally runs way screaming before you’ve even done anything. They can be quite random. Won’t always happen, but when it does its like dominos.
Can’t remember the rules for the fell blade other than str 10 d6, but bearer does have to take a test each turn or take wounds/die.
Storm banner can also run out if you’re lucky and while it is working will also affect his artillery.
I’ve used the fire born as a walking shield to protect my lord, as will still get a WS against warp lightning - might be different to cannon balls though. Also the grey seer may get a spell called wither, which can permanently drop toughness. Bad news for kdaais obviously.
Don't be surprised if some or all of his army blows up, poisons itself or generally runs way screaming before you've even done anything. They can be quite random. Won't always happen, but when it does its like dominos.
Can't remember the rules for the fell blade other than str 10 d6, but bearer does have to take a test each turn or take wounds/die.
Storm banner can also run out if you're lucky and while it is working will also affect his artillery.
I've used the fire born as a walking shield to protect my lord, as will still get a WS against warp lightning - might be different to cannon balls though. Also the grey seer may get a spell called wither, which can permanently drop toughness. Bad news for kdaais obviously.
It was a 2 day tournament and at the end of Day 1, I had 35 points out of 60 and was sitting in a very comfortable mid table position. The Saturday evening was terrible though and I was not really in any fit state to play Day 2 - I picked up 3 points on Day 2. If I had tried a bit harder, I could have possibly got another 10-20 points overall out of the tournament but it would have been a huge effort (especially since I am a terrible gamer) and it would have meant me conga-lining at one point and railroading at another - neither of which I am prepared to do.
So I finished poorly but I had a lot of fun and found some uses for the Lammasu which is good.
Overall I think the list could work, in a better gamers hands.
My Tournament report will follow.
Thank you for all the advice and I am sorry I let you guys down.
It was a 2 day tournament and at the end of Day 1, I had 35 points out of 60 and was sitting in a very comfortable mid table position. The Saturday evening was terrible though and I was not really in any fit state to play Day 2 - I picked up 3 points on Day 2. If I had tried a bit harder, I could have possibly got another 10-20 points overall out of the tournament but it would have been a huge effort (especially since I am a terrible gamer) and it would have meant me conga-lining at one point and railroading at another - neither of which I am prepared to do.
So I finished poorly but I had a lot of fun and found some uses for the Lammasu which is good.
Overall I think the list could work, in a better gamers hands.
My Tournament report will follow.
Thank you for all the advice and I am sorry I let you guys down.
thewizardofoz
no way! you went out and brought the Dawi Zharr to the people! no such thing as letting us down unless you were a complete p**** the whole time and now everyone you played thinks all Chaos Dwarf players are like that. But i doubt that happened.