[Archive] MIssing Thread

Vardan Painkiller:

I just noticed that a thread was removed, and it was neither flaming or against the rules.

Not very classy.

Hashut’s Blessing:

Not having seen it, nor knowing what it was about (haven’t yet got to the staff section), I can’t say why it’s been removed. It’s possible it was an accident, but if it wasn’t, there will be good reason.

Thommy H:

I think he’s talking about the thread where someone asked for rules. In which case it was deleted because it did break rules, and several people (including the OP possibly?) asked for it to be removed.

Hashut’s Blessing:

In that case, the answer is given.

Vardan Painkiller:

Thank you.

But asking for rules doesnt break rules, i read forum rules there is nothing there, perhaps i should start a topic about how we all understand IP, it should be enlightening.

cornixt:

Maybe asking to break the law should be against the forum rules too, good idea!

We;ve had many threads on this issue before, an unusually large number were locked or deleted because of the arguments that broke out from them. Do a search and you’ll see the locked ones.

Vardan Painkiller:

Asking about rules is not against the law, i dunt know about 3rd world, but in civilisation you can talk and comment about content of books, movies and games.

Thommy H:

This isn’t civilisation: it’s the internet.

cornixt:

Asking about rules is not against the law,

Vardan Painkiller
Read what I wrote again.
i dunt know about 3rd world, but in civilisation you can talk and comment about content of books, movies and games.
That is not what was going on. People were asking for the rules, not discussing them.

It looks like this thread is also heading towards the lock/deleted status. If you really want to continue this as a healthy debate then you are probably going to have to state the laws involved (and jurisdiction, US and UK are most relevant) and why your view of them is backed up. Or at least point to something where someone else has done so.

I stand by what I wrote before - these kinds of things are generally not worth bothering about, regardless of the actual law, because the guy with the most money nearly always wins, and guess who has the most money. If you want to stick your own neck on the line with your own website then I can't/won't stop you.

Bolg:

It looks like this thread is also heading towards the lock/deleted status.

cornixt
No dont, its to mugh fun to read!

Oh and on topic: I think the Nazies did it.

Vardan Painkiller:

Seriously- there is nothing in the Forum rules about quoting books.

I belive it doesnt matter from law standpoint if quotation is of fluff text, rules, or picture.

You can quote things when u discuss.

You cant benefit from quoting in monetary terms.

But again- its not in forum rules, it wasnt rude- so please be straight about things, its not fair to users to be treated like that.

Thommy H:

Must we do this? This site has actually had a rap on the knuckles from GW for IP infringement before. We play it safe. Don’t ask for rules, don’t quote rules directly, don’t post licensed images. Whether it’s there in the forum rules or not, when the thread came up a mod stepped in to clarify that it wasn’t the done thing. It was suggested the thread be deleted - possibly by the OP, but I can’t confirm that - and it was.

There’s no discussion here. This is the internet: there is no jurisdiction, there is no free speech, there’s only what you can and can’t do according to the people that run the website you’re posting on. And asking for or posting rules verbatim is one of the things that’s Not Allowed. No harm was done in this instance, so why are you bothering to bring it up?

Skink:

Yep, I was involved in that thread. The OP was Singleton Mosby. And the both of us asked the mods to remove the thread. A

bout this topic i must apologize, I genuinely didn’t knew that I was breaking the forum rules… I mean, t was kinda obvious but at the moment I haven’t thought about it!

Willmark:

Considering the IP issues we’ve had with GW (ones I’m not keen to repeat) I’d take Cornixt’s advice Vardan.

EDIT: I’d say this post covered some other IP questione here in April as well. http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10941

Vardan Painkiller:

Will read, thank you.

EDIT:
A note on the side, as far as i get that posters dont “own” posts, doesn’t it makes site vulnerable, as it can be argued that if it’s not users who own posts it is the site who has rights to it. IF site has right to posts it also has responsibility for it’s content- the vicarial responsibility -owner for their property, especialy that administrators have full power over content.

Thommy H:

Yes, it does make sites vulnerable - which is why YouTube has had legal difficulty when it hasn’t removed questionable content quickly enough. It’s one of the challenges the internet is starting to face more and more. Twitter is a good example, in emerging UK legislation at least, where users are considered responsible for their own posted or uploaded content (and can therefore be sued for libellous tweets) but then, Twitter doesn’t even claim to monitor the millions of tweets posted every day.

On a small site like this, the site owner and administrators can reasonably be expected to monitor all activity and are therefore responsible for anything illegal, defamatory etc. that ends up visible here.

Willmark:

Let’s see if I can make this short and sweet. Anyone posts here at the leave of the site owner. You are on his server. Most owners adhere to free speech to a degree. The staff are his deputies to make sure it runs smoothly.

If a staffer tells you to do something, you do it. We’re not trying to make it an unpleasant place, infact the opposite. Probably only the Admins have all the inter workings/knowledge as to what goes on and that’s because we have to deal with issues beyond moderation. The mods are the best at what they do, they keep a great handle on the forums. We then bring these extra issues to the staff where we all weigh in. It’s very democratic like that, the one staffer makes the announcement. Basicallly we are one team.

You can be fairly sure if a staffer does something that the rest are in agreement.

As far as this matter I think it’s been discussed and suffice to say Vardan you weren’t privy to the staffs decisions regarding why we handle ip like we do. In short let’s leave this well enough alone.

Vardan Painkiller:

I didnt try to attack anyone on this matter, i simply wonder why dont you just add disclaimer stating that you dont own content of posts and any liability is on the offending party, so the user. I know loads of forums does it so they wont be bothered by any letters of anything. Thats all. I have no probs with administration here, only thing that concerns me is that you prohibit qotation of rules even though its not in forum rules- wouldnt it be simplier to add something to bullet points in forum rules section?

snowblizz:

This is the internet: there is no jurisdiction,

Thommy H
That's not specifically true. There is jurisdiction after all that's how eg Youtube gets into trouble. The problem is usually determining *who* has the jurisdiction and getting offenders to face it.

Facebook follows American laws and is continually in trouble in Europe because making the site available has lead to them being in breach of European law. I was reading an article in a Swedish newspaper where a group mentioned reporting misogynistic and racist groups and posts which would in Sweden fall under "hate crime". The person posting those, sitting in Sweden is committing a crime, but Facebook doesn't bother since in America it falls under free speech. If Facebook would give the information to Swedish police they could bring charges against such posters.
A typical "who's jurisdiction is it anyway" case.
I didnt try to attack anyone on this matter, i simply wonder why dont you just add disclaimer stating that you dont own content of posts and any liability is on the offending party, so the user.

Vardan Painkiller
Principally that changes nothing at all. There are many places you cannot handwave away your responsibility as a publisher. Comes back to what I mentioned earlier, who's jurisdiction is actually covering something.
you prohibit qotation of rules even though its not in forum rules- wouldnt it be simplier to add something to bullet points in forum rules section?

Vardan Painkiller
I was going to ask that. Why *isn't* this in the forum rules if this is something we don't allow here?

Zuh-Khinie:

Because it IS allowed to quote rules, but you just can’t go and ask: “I don’t have the book, but can someone tell me what the relentless rule is?” There is a big difference if you ask if the 6" (or whatever it is these days) is measured from the centre model, or the edge of the unit.
However, both questions might be about the same thing, but the wording is what GW will give the site heat about, and as we all know, GW and FW watch this site a lot for inspiration, and don’t mind giving some members or this site some hassle on the side.

In the same spirit of things, it is allowed to post your armylist, but you can’t ask/tell how many points a specific thing costs… ie my chaos lord (x points), with sword of the Badger (x points) and armour of Shiny (x points). What you can say however is: chaos lord with sword of the Badger and armour of Shiny (for a total of x points).

If we start posting rules as they appear in books, or points per model and upgrade, then we might as well just scan the books and host the pdf’s here.