I have finally got around to scanning what I consider to be two of the most telling pages in the White Dwarf Presents: Chaos Dwarfs book. They are pages 52 and 53. They provide definitive, though admittedly vague, proof that:
1) Chaos Dwarfs deal with Chaos
Chaos Dwarfs can use only two allies, Chaos and Orcs and Goblins. This shows that we do work with Chaos with some regularity. It is important to note that most Army Books during the time could ally themselves with nearly all other armies, good with good, bad with bad. The fact that we can only ally ourselves with 2 of the bad armies is notable.
2) Hashut is a lesser Chaos God
I have quoted it before, but many scoffed at me: "The Chaos Dwarfs have their own Chaos god, Hashut, who is completely distinct and uniquely associated with Chaos Dwarfs.
3) Daemons could be used by the Chaos Dwarfs
It directly states that in the case of the Chaos list, you may also choose Daemons, which at the time were a seperate section, like that of war machines.
Submitted for your evaluation. Let the debate begin.
I prefer to use mine in the style of Hashut ISN’T a Chaos god. that is what I first thought when I found out about the guys and so my army is like that. It is their opinion. Of course, I will not say that Hashut ISN’T a Chaos god because it is stated that he is, but people are ignorant and don’t always know things. He he he.
I prefer to use mine in the style of Hashut ISN'T a Chaos god. that is what I first thought when I found out about the guys and so my army is like that. It is their opinion. Of course, I will not say that Hashut ISN'T a Chaos god because it is stated that he is, but people are ignorant and don't always know things. He he he.
Hashut's Blessing
Also it is fair to say most every god in Warhammer is chaos in origin, especially in the older editions of Warhammer. That doesn't mean they belong as a subset to "The Big Four."
[wiki]Hashut[/wiki] is the God of Chaos Dwarfs, not the God of Chaos Mortals. ;)
Technically, according to (I think) one of the Liber Chaotica (possibly the Undead version actually) that the gods are all manifestations of emotions and the like. The Chaos gods are so powerful because of they are represented by raw emotions that people cannot control. E.G. Greed, anger, lust, hatred.
Most of those points I’m happy with. I’m ok with all the alliances, so long as it’s certain that DZ are a separate society and army, and that CDs aren’t underneath Chaos (which is the way it is right now I believe, so that’s fine).
I’ve assumed that Hashut was a lesser Chaos God for a long while, so that’s all fine. As for this bit:
3) Daemons could be used by the Chaos Dwarfs
It directly states that in the case of the Chaos list, you may also choose Daemons, which at the time were a seperate section, like that of war machines.
Does this mean that Daemons of Hashut would be possible? Could Hashut have Daemons in the same way as the Big Four, or is not strong enough? I think it could be cool if Hashut was turned into a Chaos God, to have the Taurus as a Greater Daemon, and then some smaller Daemonic Bulls as the “fast Daemonic unit” and possibly bull headed warriors as the “basic Daemonic unit”. Dunno if this would be possible though, but it could be a nice thing to add to a Temple of Hashut based army.
Besides the Big Four, there are many lesser daemons. Furies are such daemons. That is, not all daemons belong to the Big Four. It is conceivable that there are daemons that follow Hashut. Even ones that he has influenced, as he influences Chaos Dwarfs. It’s fun to think about what Daemons of Hashut might look like.
near the bottom of the download document it has descriptions of the old daemons of hashut
Lord Zarkov
At the end it says:
Sources
The main sources for the Hobgoblins is WFB 2nd & 3rd editions, and the 3rd edition WFB Armies book. The locations in here are all shown on the WFB map that came with WD 173, and is also in WD 161. Some of the material came from WFB 2nd & 3rd ed, but most of it came from Rick Priestley's articles in WD 161-163. All of the writing except for the descriptions of the Great Taurus, Hobhound, and Lammasu are done by Garett Lepper.
Written by Garett Lepper
glepper@earthlink.net
So I am guessing the daemon stuff comes from WFB 2nd/3rd edition? r did he just make it up? It doesn't really cite sources throughout the text.
Daemons in warmachines are one thing, but I dislike the idea of daemons of Hashut. Hashut may be called a chaos god, but,a ccording to Liber Chaotica, all gods are chaos gods. Why are there no daemons of Sigmar, Ulric, Dazh, Asuryan, etc? Probably because these gods just aren’t powerful enough to have such things. The Big 4 feed off emotions which everyone on the planet feels, granting them lots of power. But Hashut is a racial god, and that race happens to be quite small. Daemons of Sigmar seem more likely, and we all agree that Sigmarite daemons would be stupid.
But, if we’re just speculating on how daemons of hashut would look, then I think TheVoice would have the best answer to this.
The daemons of Hashut were from the original Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. There were three types as I remember it. I believe they went the way of boar and wolf centaurs. Shall I have a root around and see if I can find the decriptions?
TFB, you are confusing Gods with Patrons. Sigmar was not a God, he was a person. He was elevated to God status by people. Sigmar has no real power as a god.
Other Gods of actual power originate from Chaos. When the Chaos gates were ripped open, the world was infected with Chaos. This brought about all the abominations on the world, including things like Skaven and Beastman. Even Skaven had a Greater Daemon. Daemons are the manifestations of the Gods that control them. Thus Hashut could have daemons.
Also (though I don’t have any sources or evidence on this), in my personal view I see Hashut as more of a Chaos God than, say, Khaine, or one of the Elven Gods. I know that all Gods hold links with Chaos, but is it possible that some proper “lesser Chaos Gods” are linked more with the Big Four, and that Hashut, The Horned Rat (possibly even the Great Maw etc, but that’s just random speculation by me ) are part of this group, and so more likely to potentially have Daemons, whereas the Elven Gods don’t really grant this.
Still, I’m only reallly basing this on the existence Vermin Lord (Old Skaven Greater Daemon), which may not even exist in proper fluff anymore, but still, I think that it could be possible for Hashut to have some Daemons, but then perhaps he’s not powerful enough.
Also, for me it makes more sense for the Taurus to be a Greater Daemon, than for it just to be a heavily mutated Chaos Dwarf. The Lammasu also, I can see as being like an Exalted Daemon, or even Daemon Prince (if the fluff happened to get updated). These are just my opinions though.
) are part of this group, and so more likely to potentially have Daemons, whereas the Elven Gods don’t really grant this.