Kyte:
Hi everybody. Xander and I recently had a talk on MSN about the great pity it is that chaos dwarfs are only really available for the people with the time and skill it takes to convert a whole army, or the cash it takes to buy the (IMO not very good) older models off ebay.
:idea An idea suddenly popped into our minds! Why not sculpt and cast some conversion packs for people to buy and mix with the GW dwarf plastics? IMO, It’s a great idea, and as GW won’t lose any money on it, as the casts wouldn’t include any GW parts. Things we would need would be:
1: Some sculptors, who would be ready to make a few bits
2: Some guy, who could cast the bits
3: Someone to administrate the business, sell and send out all the casts
4: Someone to make a webstore
IMO, I wouldn’t have anything against doing this for the charity, and not earn anything on it. As I see it, all the models should cost would be the materials and maybe a little for the guy, who makes the casts.
Models that would need to be made:
1: Replacement fronts for GW plastic dwarfs
2: Replacement command bits for GW Plastic Dwarfs
3: Replacement blunderbuss ends for GW thunderers
4: Replacement shields for warriors
5: Replacement shields and command bits for GW Night Goblins
6: Maybe some characters or replacement bits for plastic models that could represent characters
One main issu that springs to my mind would be: Hats or masks?
If people could ever agree on this one, it would be a lot easier. Or maybe, we could make some of both, if there are enough willing sculptors.
I myself would happily do some blunderbuss bits for instance.
What do you all think?
Thanks
- Kyte
Xander:
Swapable heads maybe for hats or masks…
Catbarf seems to think GW doesn’t like conversion packs, so we will have to reasearch this:
https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/5733
Kyte:
Swapable heads maybe for hats or masks...
Catbarf seems to think GW doesn't like conversion packs, so we will have to reasearch this:
Xander
It would be legal even though GW 'didn't like it', as they're not using their models
Thanks
- Kyte
Grimstonefire:
You couldn’t sell them in any way connected to anything to do with GW. Not refer to the intended GW parts in any way.��They wouldn’t be ‘Chaos Dwarf conversion packs suitable for use with GW plastics’, they would be ‘resin torsos of evil Dwarfs’ etc. A stand alone product if you pardon the pun, complete in every way.
I had a similar thought myself a long time ago, but generally nobody knew the exact legal standpoint.
You couldn’t use any GW parts in the sculpt at all if they were to be cast.
I’m not volunteering btw ;)��I’m going to be too busy making my own army.��Ishkur seems the perfect person IMO.
I would also recommend not having the webstore overtly linked to CDO in any way. Just to be on the safe side.
Tarliyn:
seems like a great idea if you can get all the legal aspects worked out…
if I had the skill required to do a project like this I would volunteer some time but alas I am not good enough lol
cornixt:
Legally, GW could sue you for making money off of one of their products without permission. It doesn’t matter if you don’t actually make money or that it forces people to buy GW products to complete it, they will sue you and they have a good case.
There are ways around it though. Firstly, never mention any GW products in any advertisement for it. Don’t use a pressing of the plastic dwarf parts to make an exact fit - try to make the fit as different as possible while still usable. Use a different style - if you have hats don’t put arrows on them, or skulls with beards.
Personally, I think that simply sculpting some generic evil dwarfs would be much easier, just try to keep away from them looking too much like the Hellcannon crew.
Kyte:
Dammit Grimstone! You’d be the perfect man for the job! Couldn’t you at least do some weapon arms or something?
About copyright issues, GW has the rights for “Chaos Dwarfs” but not “Chaos Dwarves” or "Dwarfs of Chaos"
This is to Snotling: Would you mind your jesus-doll banner being used as a banner included in the command set?
Thanks
- Kyte
torn:
i thought about doing resin casts for my own army, but the cost and time involved is pretty much the same as doing green stuff conversions, but with less individuality.
i think if this was to happen it would be at great expense to the individuals sculptig and casting, not to mention the legal worry. i wouldnt say i wouldnt buy any, just that i wouldnt risk myself being involved in the creation process.
WarplockMonkey:
Well i think its a fantastic idea! If i can be of any service please message me.
Kyte:
Making a few complete models were the original idea, but then people wouldn’t buy them because they were NON-GW models.
Thanks
- Kyte
WarplockMonkey:
Another thought, how about doing conversion kits for black Orcs?
Grimstonefire:
I am about to be taking an extended absence from all forums to sort out certain things and actually get my army painted.
This might be 3 months…
If when I return there is still interest, and we can work out who will produce/ distribute these. Assuming they are non-profit (sold in small batches to cover costs only) I might be interested.��That’s not a promise though.
I have the capability to cast these in white metal, but the casting quality isn’t really that great.��Resin would be better and easier (and cheaper to airmail).
I wouldn’t want to be involved in distributing/ selling at all.��I would sculpt only and leave everything to somebody else.
If you had a UK/ europe volunteer and a US/canadian one that would make it a lot cheaper.��That might mean 2 people producing though instead of one.
IMO Ishkur is still your best bet.
Off topic really, but I am getting sorely tempted to actually get a centrifugal casting machine.��Its VERY expense (�1000+), and I would have to start selling miniatures in their hundreds, but I am considering it.��It would be great fun to produce larger multi-part models.
Kyte:
people would certainly buy your figs, grim… But hell �1000 is a lot of money for a hobby thing, but if one mini is �5, you’d only have to sell 200 of them to pay itself in…
Thanks
- Kyte
Hashut’s Blessing:
Well, I’d happily do the admin. and/or distribution side of things. If someone based in the UK had the casting, they could mail them to me and I’d distribute them. However, they increses P&P exponentially. Maybe the admin. should be more on the side of collecting the money and orders, then giving them to the distributer/caster to send out? This would reduce the price of P&P, but would mean that they may take longer to be received. I actually drew up some VERY BASIC CONCEPT (They are PURELY to get an idea across, a better artist would be needed for details) for models. I am willing for these to be looked at (These include mask/helmet/neither options and are fairly simple.) As for the issue of them fitting, there are a few options. A couple of which are to A) Put a large bulb of extra resin on the back (probelm: increases expenses), B) Leave a straight back, which would either leave a hollow or small gap (this could be filled with GS, not difficult…) or even, poerhaps, C) Create a set of legs separately (this not only avoids them being linked to GW, but also allows people to buy entire miniatures.). any other theories?
Ishkur Cinderhat:
I would be happy to provide some work for this project, as I have collected some know-how regarding working with resin and mould-making during the past 3-4 years or so.
I should say however that I seem to remember reading something about “it’s not allowed to sell conversion sets for our miniatures” in the legal disclaimer issued by GW Germany. It should be researched if this is true also for GW UK / US.
Another problem certainly would be that I am here in Austria, and it would be kinda hard to distribute any models from here very easily. The way I understand it most ppl from the forums are from the US and Canada…?
Kyte:
Ishkur, Austria is mid-Europe, which would decrease postage for most of europe, as it didn’t have to be sailed/flewn to most countries.
Now the main question is:
Full models, that are 100% legal and probably very cool, but not tournie legal
Or…
Conversion kits, that will be illegal if not hidden
What are you up to?
Someone already made a multipart CD for his army.
Thanks
- Kyte
Ishkur Cinderhat:
I’d say the 100% genuine sculpted mini is the lesser of two evils, but it’s true that it will not be legal for tournaments, which might discourage a lot of people, and it’s also a lot harder to realize.
Xander:
I think a compromise would be best. Have a three part kit for the body: Legs, Back of Torso, Front of Torso. That in addition to arms, weapons, etc.
Then allow bits orders. Simple, we have our own complete range that just happens to possibly fit with GW models. 
torn:
i think something based around kobarfs sculpt would be better. we would have 1 or 2 bodies, with beard attatched, and then arm variations, and finally numerous head choices of both masks and big hats.
i think GW tournament legality is a lot less of a worry than actual real world legality. Id stick to the option that wouldnt land you in court with a big fine.
If i had something to work off i wouldnt mind sculpting some big hat head variations. im just adamant against breaking (or even bending) copyright laws.
minty:
well, GW tornanmant legality is a problem but if we make the pieces interhcnagable with GW products and have normal torsosof our own we can finnnce our leaders and get CD more advertised
(jus put our own little twist in so we don’t get sued)
