[Archive] Small changes to forum

Archive [Archive] Chaos Dwarf Discussion
21

GRNDL:

That’s BS, no, its not e-peen, not even remotely close. Its a counter of how much you’ve contributed to the site. Someone that’s put in 500 posts has obviously spent a lot more time and effort than someone who’s posted 1, 10, 100 posts. Yet if 500 posts haven’t been counted because they weren’t in a flagged forum, why shouldn’t they count? They’ve potentially brought activity to the forum and increased the level of community on the site as a whole.

@Grimstonefire, “encouraging me to post less”

How are you encouraging me to post less? Because most of my contributions are in areas of the forums which arbitrarily do not contribute to the “cause of CD’s” and thus aren’t counted. If I post in most forums, it is merely welcomed, perhaps respected. If I post in the CD forums, it is welcomed, perhaps respected and increments my counter…

If the counter doesn’t mean anything, why even have it? Obviously it DOES mean something, or you wouldn’t be regulating it or controlling how it is influenced by users.

Reaching 500 posts meant something to Sojourn.

Reaching 1000 posts meant something to all the immortals, even if it was a fun little title.

Reaching X,000 posts meant something to Xander and Kera, and so on…

Willmark posting more than Xander meant something…

LoL, e-peen or not, it means something.

22

Swissdictator:

I admit, I was kinda hoping to get to 1,000 posts (keeping them relevant and useful, not just spamming) by my birthday (or if I missed that) a few days later for my one year anniversary on the site. It was a small little thing for me to enjoy. It is certainly harder now, but I’m not complaining either.

It won’t make me post less either. Though I would say Warhammer discussion is a pretty significant part of the site as that can effect us (IE: FAQ, 8th edition rumors, etc).

Plus there’s a fair point in the threads in the marketplace in helping people find classic figures. I managed to do so before I was really active here and it was hard. I wish I had that resource when I was collecting, I’d probably have gotten more. Regardless, I think the people who post such finds are to be commended anyways! :cheers

@ThT: That was a bit of creepy analogy. Please don’t make such an analogy again… that honestly creeped me out.

23

Pyro Stick:

There are threads yes.  But I don't know why this is an issue really, it's not like we get hundreds of threads and replies there anyway?  Certainly nowhere near what we do on the other areas.

The vast majority of the constructive CD related stuff on the forum happens in the CD discussion, all the hobby areas and the army book development section anyway?

The market place is so small compared to the thousands of views and replies we have in the other areas.

Grimstonefire
The few threads that i mentioned have a combined total of 641 posts and 14,433 views. And there are 21 pages in the market place section with 20 threads on every page adding up to 408 threads. The market place has more threads than the whole army develpoment section put together, and most of the other sections as well.
I do take your point Pyro, but we have to draw a line in the sand somewhere between what is actually contributing overall to the most number of people and what is perfectly fine to read and contribute to but is only a small part of what the CDO forum is all about.  The market place, the warhammer section and all the off topic bits are really only bolt on parts to the forum, they are needed to give members a place to discuss these things, but CDO would survive without them.

Grimstonefire
That is totally your own opinion. I dont play warhammer that much. I dont even understand a lot of the rules. The main thing im interested in is the models and since the main source for our whole army is ebay i dont see why you think the market place is so irrelevant. You are interested in the rules side of things and therefore you are trying to make this forum all about the rules and background part of things. Why is that any more important than the models themselves?

Also, this is basically a Warhammer forum. There is no reason to get rid of the post count in that section either.
24

Grimstonefire:

Well, what can I say, it’s rare that for me to be genuinely astonished by things but I am by some of the reactions I’ve seen in this thread.

Chaos Dwarfs online is not a broad based warhammer forum like:

http://warhammer.org.uk/PhP/index.php

it never has been and it never will be.  If you want to be amongst people interested in CD you come here, if you want to be amongst collectors from every army you look elsewhere, or you accept that this is how it is here.

I will try and explain where I’m coming from with this post count thing.  I don’t expect you to agree, but you may find it interesting nontheless.

I have been involved in the warhammer internet community for at least 5 years.  I’ve been a member of at least 13 different forums, and of those I’ve been an active member for many years on 4.  In all the thousands of posts I’ve made over the years I can honestly say that there have only been 2 occasions where I have been bothered in the slightest way about my post count.

Both were upon reaching 1000 posts (here and on Bugmans).  On neither occasion it was because I somehow felt happier about this, it was because I wanted to be careful to make my 1000’th post a special one to me.  Other than that of all the thousands of posts I’ve made over the years I honestly didn’t give a damn about what my post count was.

The fact that I missed out on all the cool progression names on 3 of those forums by being a member of staff was a shame, but was I bothered really?  No.  There are far more important things to worry about in life.

There are occasions when ‘post count envy’ can be a good thing, but generally if a forum gets like that it’s usually a bad thing.  You’ll just have to take my word on that, I’ve seen it before.

What is a post count you ask?  It’s a number.  Does it mean anything other than an indication of how many times you’ve posted?  Does it automatically mean you have contributed anything useful?  

The reason we have a post count is because I’m not entirely sure the forum would even work without it, and aside from the last few months it has never been an issue on CDO before…

This is obviously an issue now so let’s sort this out once and for all.

As it may not be obvious to some people, all the staff ever try and do is to make this a better forum.  We spend a lot of time behind the scenes discussing things for the short, medium and long term.  We make decisions that some people may not like because we believe they are in the best interest of the forum.

I’m sorry if some people are more concerned about their post count than others, but at the end of the day it’s the threads and post themselves that are important, the number is just a number.

I cannot explain my position any better than that.  If that is not enough I’m not going to even attempt to explain myself more.

25

snowblizz:

Grim, aren’t you being somewhat unreasonable?

Grim: “This is how I think ti should so this is how it is”

Lots of members: “But we don’t quite like it that way, we liked it how it used to be”

Grim: "I don’t care due to

26

Kera foehunter:

well why not make the army book section a no post section too and the gamming section also
but this is not getting us any  where ?? i will not take  it out on the messenger  of the cdo administrator
i think we just get rid of the post counter on are avatars ?
well like a civil site let put it to the vote!
we have strong opinion here !!! and we look like where stuck!!

27

Grimstonefire:

@snowblizz

I do understand where you’re coming from. But if these sections had never had a post count would we be discussing it now? Think about that please. If we are to change things we can only do it now, we cannot go back and do it all differently.

I disagree on the amount people can talk about regarding CD. If we never get a book we may eventually come to rely on the warhammer and off topic sections to draw in people, in which case not only would we bring back the post count, but we’d probably expand those areas.

Fortunately we are far from that stage. I’m actually being very optimistic about our future, saying that the warhammer, off topic and market sections are things people can go to on any forum and so they are not reasons people specifically want to come to CDO.

Comparing my approach to GW is just harsh man. GW doesn’t even have a forum now. HoH was abandoned for completely different reasons.

Much as it’s (not) fun having to defend my decisions, if anyone else has anything to add we can sort this out now?

@Kera

If we were to drop the post count completely that would mark us out as the most unsuccessful warhammer forum community of all time! I know what you’re talking about ;), but it won’t come to that.

Lets remember guys 'n gals, this is supposed to be fun right?

28

GRNDL:

@snowblizz
I do understand where you're coming from. But if these sections had never had a post count would we be discussing it now? Think about that please. If we are to change things we can only do it now, we cannot go back and do it all differently.

Grimstonefire
The one thing you still haven't addressed sufficiently is why these changes need to be made at all? Especially when there's not a lot of spam post to begin with. There is a great community built on interesting posts and people login to see them and be a part of it.

Change isn't always good and the worst kind of change is an unnecessary one.
I disagree on the amount people can talk about regarding CD. If we never get a book we may eventually come to rely on the warhammer and off topic sections to draw in people, in which case not only would we bring back the post count, but we'd probably expand those areas.

Fortunately we are far from that stage. I'm actually being very optimistic about our future, saying that the warhammer, off topic and market sections are things people can go to on any forum and so they are not reasons people specifically want to come to CDO.

Grimstonefire
Maybe, but people come HERE for those sections. I don't post on any other forums and I only go to 2 other forums for very specific subjects (Dakka for news/rumours) and Pyramid Vault for modelling. But obviously that may need to change, because you really don't want my support for non-CD topics. You continue to emphasize this: we can go to other forums for that... I don't see why you would do that unless this whole this is about CD purity or something.
@Kera
If we were to drop the post count completely that would mark us out as the most unsuccessful warhammer forum community of all time!

Grimstonefire
So post count doesn't mean anything, but its a measure of our success?
Lets remember guys 'n gals, this is supposed to be fun right?

Grimstonefire
I remember that it was fun, getting less so now.
29

Grimstonefire:

Lol.  I can see if we keep this topic open for a while we’ll all be at 1000 posts!

I don’t honestly have much more to add to what I’ve said in all my other replies, but I explained it better in a pm I did so copied and pasted:

Is the off topic section ‘important’?  I would say yes, it certainly is.  It builds on our community as being friendly.  Does it HAVE to contribute to posts?  No.  Why is that do you think?  Why did we take that decision over a year ago?

Warhammer and Off topic Showcase.  Again, these are ‘important’, and more importantly they may be growing the longer we go without a book.  When you look at someone’s post count what does it mean now?  What will it mean in the future when you look at it?

We have to draw a line on why we want people to come to CDO.  We can go one way and develop into a broad based forum, enlarging the warhammer and off topic showcase areas, setting up projects etc.  OR we can stick to what has worked for the last 2 years and try and focus on CD.  I think this might be the crucial point we disagree on?

The Market Place:  We have threads there about Chaos Dwarfs.  We have threads about loads of other things.  Consider this; if I posted 1000 times about the going rate for a snotling does it mean I should be recognised in the main forum as somehow knowledgeable on CD?  You may laugh (or not), but it seems some people are really concerned about this.  I judge people by the quality of their posts, not the number under their name.

I’d rather know for a fact that a 1000 post member has posted 1000 times on something related to CD than 500 times on the price of snotlings (market), 250 times on the relative strength of snotlings (warhammer discussion), and 250 times with a thread for each of his 250 snotlings (off topic showcase)!  Nothing wrong with Snotlings btw. :h

That example could equally be a 20 page blog on tyranids or uruk hai (excluding the warhammer discussion bit of course). ;)  It wouldn’t really bother me either way anyway, but if it is a really crucial issue for people (1000 posts being the ascension to godhood or something) we can change it now.  Recognising top posters and forum stats will be so much more relevant as well because they will be a direct indication of how active the CD part of CDO is.

So by drawing the line we are trying to think about 1 year, 2 years, 5 years from now.

There are different ways to recognise contribution (whether you believe the post count reflects this), but ultimately the ONLY important thing is that you create the threads, people read them and they reply.  This is what people should be doing it for after all, this is a contribution.  The post count is only a record of the number of times you have posted.  I have not changed that fundamentally, just as many people will read and reply as before.  In all the sections I’m sure lots and lots of people will still start threads.  Why do people come to CDO really?  Is it to engage with fellow CD fans or the many CD related projects, or to boost the small number under their name?  I’d be happy to start a poll on that if you wanted?

The paragraph above sums it all up, it’s the basic principle of how a forum should work, and it’s what I’d like you to consider.

I had hoped you might see things a little differently.

30

Swissdictator:

I’m not going to worry about this really, as I think I offered my info.

I do hope I came across as respectful and polite though Grim! :cheers

The mods/admins here are a good group of people and I can’t really complain about anything (aside perhaps from the noodle incident) :o

31

Grimstonefire:

Noodle incident? I must have had the day off :slight_smile: Did HB make a noodle cake or something?

32

Henroth:

For my OK. :slight_smile:

This message was automatically appended because it was too short.

33

Canix:

Lol.  I can see if we keep this topic open for a while we'll all be at 1000 posts!

Grimstonefire
Will they count toward our post count?;)

I read alot more than i post and dont pay attention to whether my reply will add to my post count .I enjoy all non CD topics and CD topics even though i frequent other forums.
Creativity is great to see and inspiration can be gained from the most unusual threads .The marketplace is an important part of a balanced forum and although i cant really see why you would change the post relevance to CDO, i dont think it will make much difference in the long run.
I do hope to post something important for my 1000 post when i get there eventually :hat
34

Xander:

Here’s my take.

I believe GRNDL, above, said that we have very little spam posts right now.  We’ve been hearing reports by people that spam posts are on the rise.  A few members made this very clear to us.  They were serious concerns.  Grim’s decision was directly linked to this, I believe.  He wanted to show he was proactive in solving that problem.

The reason the Off Topic Discussion section had its post count disabled was because posts in that forum are of a(n) (allowable) spamming nature.  When you have forum games that require really inane replies, like posting images, or what have you, the posts are often made in rapid succession.  At the time I felt it was best to allow the spamming of such topics to continue, but simply disable the post count.

I don’t think the logic follows from this original decision to these other forums:  you can’t make inherently spam-like posts in these other sections.  But I think Grim was trying to refocus how your contributions to CDO are tallied.  While it seemed like a worthy plan in theory, I think we are realizing that CDO means more to people than just Chaos Dwarfs.  The site seems to have developed a really strong fan-base of people who are fans of CDO and not just Chaos Dwarfs.  I think this is important, and we’d be foolish to ignore it.  

Part of the reason this site DOES succeed in getting fans is because of the highly active staff members!  On other forums, if someone was suggesting something be done about spam-posts, the staff might completely ignore them!  At least here, we have a very stong, active, and competent set of Staffers!  It’s better that Grim has taken action, over inaction!  We’ve started a healthy discussion here!  I submit to you that this is a good thing.

The Post Count phenomena in the online realm is a very interesting one.  I have seen it discussed countless times, on countless forums, with countless opinions.  The fact is, a post count reflects how active you are as a member of a forum.  I think we can all agree that lurkers who read and don’t post, do not contribute as much to the site.   The next step is signing up to the forums!  We encourage that, as it helps us grow.  The question then becomes are the posts made quality posts? Have they contributed more to the site in their one awesome thread than many others have in 20 threads?  Possibly, yes.  But I don’t think that should be reflected in the post count. The post count is a reflection of how active you are on the forums, it measures nothing else.  Take Ishkur for example.  He has contributed a LOT to this site.  And he is recognized for this in different ways!  He has the most medals.  He doesn’t post as much as Willmark or myself, but he has contributed some really amazing things to CDO!  But he still doesn’t have 1000 posts.  That’s because he simply doesn’t post as much as HB does.  Over time, and soon enough, Ishkur will reach 1000 posts.  And this will be a only a reflection of how active he was, not of his contributions.  That distinction is the important one, I think.

I’d rather people shoot for medals than for posts.  After all, the ONLY time posts are recognized is when you hit 1000. Take Kera for example.  SHe was one of the fastest people to reach 1000. Why? Because she was the most active person on the whole site!  It would have been very easy to accuse her of only wanting to reach that 1000 mark. But when she reached 1000, did she slow down? Hardly.  There are no more prizes for post count.  She’s remained consistent in how active she is; and I don’t think anyone would disagree that she is the most active person on the site.  Does that mean she has contributed the most? Not necessarily.  But we reward contributions in other ways.  

The Herdstone doesn’t have a post count.  I find that to be a detriment to their site.  I have no idea how active I have been on that site.  And in general, I have no quick way of knowing how active other members are either. I find I miss the post count on forums that do not have it.

If indeed spamming was our initial problem to begin with, I propose we try and fight that on a member-oriented basis, and not with a blanket reduction on post count accrual.  If you see a person who you believe is spamming a lot.  Make a small case for yourself, grab some links to posts that you found spam-like and submit them to Staff via PM.  If action is warranted, the Staff will likely just PM that user and request that a bit more meat be added to their posts, a small warning.

Their definitely were some people saying that spam was on the rise, and perhaps we should now refocus the discussion on how best to reduce this, or whether or not you even agree that spam is on the rise. Overall, as I said, I am glad Grim did something, over nothing.  And since the Staff are very active and will engage in discussion, now is a good time to try and reach some kind of consensus. :slight_smile:

EDIT: 900 words… sorry! Man, I should take up essay writing…

35

Thommy H:

I don’t have an opinion on this subject, I’m just bumping up my post count.

36

Lord Archaon:

I think that canceling the post counts in The Market Place and Off Topic Showcase sections is a good thing, but i’m not sure about the Warhammer section, because a lot of good topics and posts made there, that stimulate us to paint/convert CD.

BTW. this topic belongs to the Off Topic Section not CD Discussion ;).

37

Swissdictator:

Noodle incident?  I must have had the day off :)  Did HB make a noodle cake or something?

Grimstonefire
The Noodle Incedent is a Calvin and Hobbes reference. They never explained what it was and left it to the readers imagination. :)
38

Tarrakk Blackhand:

I agree with your last (And largest) statement Xander.

I do like the fact of winning prizes here on CDO…although I haven’t won any. It’s something to strive for and helps build us up.

I’m thinking that the OT section doesn’t need a post count for the reasons you described, and niether does the “For Sale” section because anyone can sell something as a 1 off post and then never come back.

However, we probably should keep the post cound for the GW one because it is a part of the whole GW universe and one of the larger parts of this fourm.

Anyway, keep up the good work and the fun!

39

clam:

I believe GRNDL, above, said that we have very little spam posts right now. We've been hearing reports by people that spam posts are on the rise. A few members made this very clear to us. They were serious concerns. Grim's decision was directly linked to this, I believe. He wanted to show he was proactive in solving that problem.

Xander
I might be one of those who came down clear about the spams, the off topics and the turning CDO away form Chaos Dwarfs and into a more general WFB forum �?" but I also made it quite clear, that post counts was the last thing I cared about. So, if my PM is directly linked to this decision �?" I can only say �?" you really got me wrong.

Can�?Tt really see what post counts has to do with this �?" will it make people build or paint more Chaos Dwarfs to show? Will there be more CD armies at tournaments, more battle reports and new approaches on our army lists? - just because only these forums count? �?" I guess not.
And will there be less off topic posts in the on topic threads? �?" sorry guys, we really can do better then this.

What we need is a dedicated forum who talks about every aspect about our beloved race �?" and the world around them �?" also our entire Warhammer World.

I really do not hope that shutting down the counters on forums like �?othe market place�?�, �?oWarhammer Discussions�?� and the off topic showcase �?" will make people go else where? I kind of like the �?oall in on place�?� this has become.

We need an active marketplace �?" we all hate being forced turning to eBay and the eBay prices. We encourage people to put up there CDs up here before turning to eBay. We all want to here and see about the new rules, the new armies ect. - and most of all we (or maybe just I) enjoy seeing, your takes on other armies too. How would have missed seeing Ishkur�?Ts other works or Grim�?Ts Golden Demon entry? And you can actually still learn from a painter, even if it�?Ts not a Chaos Dwarf he/she has painted ;)

I know that shutting down post counts not automatically means less activity, but it�?Ts a big risk to take �?" Is that what we want? I hope not.

But what we need is, to stop what we don�?Tt want to see!

What I don�?Tt want here (yes, I know I�?Tm not Mod.) �?" is CD blogs starting with �?~I might do a CD army �?" who do I do it?�?T or �?~found this BSFP-dwarf and made this�?T kind of thread �?" do some research first and do a small unit before starting a blog for god sake.
Nor do I want to see post about things that are easily found by doing a search or looking briefly at our Wiki. And your first posts here shouldn�?Tt really be in the off topic showcase.

But why not just act, when we see these things? It�?Ts a tough job, but we (and in particularly the Mods) have to do it �?" and with a little help from us all, I think we can pull this off - without making restrictive rules.

And a concrete suggestion, how about you�?Tll have to �?~apply�?T for an off topic showcase �?" thread? Then someone could judged if it beneficial or not.

And last, but not least �?" I think what pisses people off the most is the way this was done! I really think that this should had been debated in the community before the change was made �?" left hand says democracy and equality and the right says �?~we know best�?T (Read: Staff) �?" what happened to �?~we are all ears�?T?

I�?Tll say listen to the patient, cure the illness �?" but don�?Tt cut off the legs.
I don't have an opinion on this subject, I'm just bumping up my post count.

Thommy H
This is exactly the kind of post that I find so �?�.. unnecessarily at our forums.
40

Thommy H:

This is exactly the kind of post that I find so �?�.. unnecessarily at our forums.
Yeah, jokes suck. Let's all be serious all the time instead.

I'm sorry, but does anyone actually care about this topic? I hope it was clear I was satirising the very concept of caring about post count, because I can't imagine anything more inane. Post in a topic because you want to discuss it, not because of some perceived kudos that comes from being noisier than anyone else.

I wouldn't blame the staff if they turned off post counts altogether after this nonsense.