[Archive] Sneaky Gits... Which should they be?

Willmark:

Should they be a skirmisher unit or stay as infantry as is?

I’m of the mindset that they need to be remade into some form of skirmisher and or scout unit.

Pyro Stick:

I think it would make more sense for them to be a skirmisher unit. They could be made into a much better unit that way.

Malificant:

skirmishers would fit their role best, and add to our army an element we currently lack-skirmishers. failing that a rule which state that enemies cannot gain a rank bonus against sneaky gitz units of 10+ could be a way to bridge their effectivness-points gap.

Willmark:

Interesting thought there. I wonder how effective that would be in gameplay. Looks like you have a homework assignment. :slight_smile:

Canix:

Sneaky gits should be skirmishers imo also there are quite a few fluffy ways to represent their sneakiness.They have poison attacks so throwing daggers could be useful . Sneaky back attacks could be represented by deployment as scouts last and close to the enemy or perhaps hidden deployment where for all intents and purposes they arrive later ala herds ,miners etc.Perhaps auto rally when fleeing as thats what they would always do or they flee further because like athletes they have honed their skills at running to heroic(cowardly:D) preportions;)

Malificant:

a homework assignment you say? well lets run the theory and numbers here.

the theory is bridging a gap between what they used to be with lapping around, and what they are now with the free reform. this way you get the free reform, but also automatically deny ranks to the enemy provided you have 10 models. 10 because the old rules allowed you to wrap around, and you need 5 models to deny ranks, plus the 5 in front. this by itself could be too powerful, so possibly making an exclusion stating in the 2nd and subsequent rounds of combat.

so a unit of 30 sneaky gitz. with full command we are talking 180 points. 6x5 deployment vs, lets say empire spearmen of the same size, 5+ armor:

13 attacks.

6-7 hits., 2 auto wounds

2-3 wounds + 2 auto wounds= gross 4-5 wounds

1-2 saves

net 3 kills average.

spears attack back.

10 attacks.

5 hits

2-3 wounds gross

no saves

net 2-3 kills average.

tie combat.

so first round is pretty equal, as it should be. similarly priced units.

second round

13 attacks.

6-7 hits., 2 auto wounds

2-3 wounds + 2 auto wounds= gross 4-5 wounds

1-2 saves

net 3 kills average.

spears attack back.

10 attacks.

5 hits

2-3 wounds gross

no saves

net 2-3 kills average.

same effect kill wise, but now the sneaky gitz have 3 ranks and win combat by 3-4 depending on numbers. this is acceptable as they occupy a special slot as opposed to a core slot like the spearmen.

Uzkul Werit:

Skirmishers and scouts. Even before they weren’t that sneaky but now they’re just awful.

wallacer:

With the removal of the lapping around rule they should either be scouts or skirmishers (or possibly both).

At the moment they are pretty much redundant.

Kera foehunter:

i say skirmisher !! cool swords thow

Willmark:

a homework assignment you say? well lets run the theory and numbers here.

the theory is bridging a gap between what they used to be with lapping around, and what they are now with the free reform. this way you get the free reform, but also automatically deny ranks to the enemy provided you have 10 models. 10 because the old rules allowed you to wrap around, and you need 5 models to deny ranks, plus the 5 in front. this by itself could be too powerful, so possibly making an exclusion stating in the 2nd and subsequent rounds of combat.

so a unit of 30 sneaky gitz. with full command we are talking 180 points. 6x5 deployment vs, lets say empire spearmen of the same size, 5+ armor:

13 attacks.
6-7 hits., 2 auto wounds
2-3 wounds + 2 auto wounds= gross 4-5 wounds
1-2 saves
net 3 kills average.

spears attack back.
10 attacks.
5 hits
2-3 wounds gross
no saves
net 2-3 kills average.

tie combat.

so first round is pretty equal, as it should be. similarly priced units.
second round
13 attacks.
6-7 hits., 2 auto wounds
2-3 wounds + 2 auto wounds= gross 4-5 wounds
1-2 saves
net 3 kills average.

spears attack back.
10 attacks.
5 hits
2-3 wounds gross
no saves
net 2-3 kills average.

same effect kill wise, but now the sneaky gitz have 3 ranks and win combat by 3-4 depending on numbers. this is acceptable as they occupy a special slot as opposed to a core slot like the spearmen.

Malificant
Well done slave for you :awards slave:

Ishkur Cinderhat:

Skirmishers, definitely. Rules aside, the rank and file character of a unit just won’t befit the chaotic and disorganized sneaky gitz.

cornixt:

Okay, 17-0 say make them skirmishers. I guess that is pretty conclusive. It only makes sense when you ready the fluff and description.

Willmark:

We should save this oh-so scientific poll for GW when rewrite time rolls around… :wink:

Arlon:

they should be scirmishers

because running around in a easily seen unit dosent seem verey sneaky

Willmark:

Hence the whole point of this thread :slight_smile:

AGPO:

I’d say skirmishers simply because at the moment they are just expensive hobgoblins with poisoned attacks and two hand weapons which take up a special choice - they are nothing special. Dwarf armies also lack skirmishers so its something else which sets us apart from them

Willmark:

A Special Choice that is not special???

Uzkul Werit:

What do you mean? Goblins are sooo worth it.

Willmark:

What do you mean? Goblins are sooo worth it.

Uzkul Werit
Goblins WOULD be worth it if they were Night Gobbos that could have fanactics. Other the that I'd be hard pressed to come up with a single good reason to pick Gobbos as a Special.

Its as if GW simply through them in there and didn't really think it out. Not shocking IMHO.

Warlord:

Skirmishers / scouts are IMO the best choice. I wouldn’t say they are far off Gnobblar Trapper rules - except instead of hunter rules, a rule that says something like they can negate ranks…