After a long discussion amongst the Staff we are now putting some rules in place regarding the forum and posting. For a long time we had the the policy of being a very open site, we still want to be that site. However it has come to a point where we are compelled to act.
First off what this is NOT about. This is not about limiting what you can contribute to the site, this has everything to do with what certain member are posting. If you�?Tre going to say something and post it, make it worthwhile. If you are going to say something, make it so someone else would actually want to read it. If you are posting to simply boost your post count or to add a whimsical one liner, please refrain. Continue to do so and you will be getting an invitation to discuss your posting future on Chaos Dwarfs Online from one of the Staff members.
This is not to say we are trying to limit speech on the site, in fact discussing matters on a variety of topics is a good thing, inane posting however is not. We want the focus to go back to what certain members have rightly pointed out what makes this site great.
And to head off the question: No. this is not about removing post count; if you have an issue with that… we already discussed that matter at length behind the scenes and on the forum, its not going anywhere.
I can assure you this: the days of adding 5 word or less responses that add nothing or as simple as “great job” or “I like that” are OVER. If you feel compelled to add something to a discussion you might want to ask yourself is this a good quality post. If you can�?Tt answer that honestly then, I suggest not posting it. And when I say �?osuggest�?�… that’s me being polite. You like something that someone did in the blog section great, tell them why.
Other posting habits you might want to avoid in the future:
- If we see that you posted in one thread at 5:02, then another in 5:02 then 3 at 5:03, 5 at 5:04 etc… you can expect one of us to come calling and drop a note in your inbox… Reading might be better served then upping ones post count with rapid fire replies in one thread after another; its as if certain members are cutting and pasting their replies.
- If we see you posted in 15 different threads in the span of 3 minutes (I kid you not) We are fairly sure that you aren�?Tt reading anything if at all.
- If we see a pattern of posts dragging threads off topic for no reason… we will come calling shortly.
- If you post and occasional one liner you might get a pass, develop a pattern to do it and we will be �?ochatting�?�.
The more astute amongst you will realize that that there have been many initiatives as of late that the Staff is putting forward, this isn’t the last. There are more Staff, a recap of the report post functionality and a thread to remind that good posters can be rewarded with slaves. In short there will be more to come.
The vast majority of the site has nothing to worry about, we don�?Tt have an issue with what you are posting, you are what makes Chaos Dwarfs Online the best destination on the web.
There are those that are posting very frequently, but their posts are substantive and well thought out. They might be voluminous, but they sure are a pleasure to read. We know who those people are and encourage that behavior.
There are those that are casting dispersion and disharmony on the site, that are causing members to consider leaving the site. We know who you are, and are watching. There will be more coming on that later.
Finally there are those that are posting large amounts of inane nonproductive posts. We know who you are too and if behaviors are not changed, we will be discussing this very shortly in you.
In closing know that the entire Staff is watching, we already have a good idea who are the chief culprits to begin with… if you�?Tre worried: Ask yourself? Am I guilty of this behavior? If you are, you can control your own fate and we don�?Tt have to be involved, if not then we step in. Not only will this be in the form of PMs but inline moderation, in the threads themselves. If your behavior fits this pattern expect to be called on it. In short you will be seeing much more of a presence from the Staff, especially the Moderators.The Moderators have the full backing of the Administrators in this. If you are directed by a Moderator to get back on track and you don�?Tt, expect the Administrators to be siding with the Mods…
If there are questions or concerns regarding this please feel free to PM me or one of the Staff that you have the best rapport with. I will add this has the backing of the ENTIRE Staff, so if you want to take objection with this fine, but this was reached as a group decision, and an overdue one at that.
Yeah, people being funny and fostering a sense of community and friendship: that’s the problem. Essays only from now on, all right, guys? If you can’t say it in eighteen paragraphs, don’t say it at all.
Willmark has made a general point here about what constitutes a spam post and what is a better type of contribution.
By creating this thread he has reminded our members that the important thing is quality over quantity.
To answer Thommy’s point, sure there will always be occasions where a short reply may ocassionally be given. Our best and brightest members may do this from time to time, but what it tells us is that it is not unreasonable to hope our members recognise the importance of providing longer feedback generally.
At the end of the day it is not that much to hope that our members would prefer quality replies over spam is it?
This is certainly nowhere near as big an issue as arguementative posting (which we are also developing a formal review system for btw), but it is a worthy topic of discussion nonetheless.
As long as people take on board Willmark’s suggestions there will be no problems, and spending a few seconds typing just a little bit more for each reply isn’t going to be the end of the world is it?
Hello everyone,
- If we see you posted in 15 different threads in the span of 3 minutes (I kid you not) We are fairly sure that you aren�?Tt reading anything if at all.
Willmark
3 minutes for 15 posts/threads? That's nothing at all. I forsee breaking this in the near future.:hat off
That all said, why the sudden change and upping of rules et al? I know I've been away for a while but one thing that you might want to not just crack down on as you've implied is the use of discussion/talking between people during posts. Maybe make it a rule to use an under score at the end to put in responses like that as that sort of posting enriches the community greatly. Remove it and you get a repeat of the games-workshop Specialist Games forums on combining them, no more forum fun, o more getting to know people through comments here and there that lead into actual conversation et al, sure in a thread, but as long as it is brought back by the discussee's eventually to teh original topic, where is the harm in that?
At the end of the day it is not that much to hope that our members would prefer quality replies over spam is it?
I have no idea what they prefer, and I don't think you do either. Maybe I'm missing something here - is CDO falling apart? Do we have huge, glaring problems that threaten the very survival of the site? Is this even a problem in the first place?
All I see here is an arbitrary ruling to cut down an issue that hasn't caused any problems as far as I can see. Sometimes a short reply contains more content than a long one - sometimes you can say what you mean in a few words. Classifying any short post as "spam" is beyond inane. Do you actually think that when I reply to something with a single sentence, I'm doing so to bump up my post count, or just replying for the sake of replying? If I've used a single sentence, it's because I felt a single sentence was appropriate for whatever reason. I didn't just type any old crap for the hell of it so I could get a little star in the icon by the thread.
I don't think I've ever been on a forum where the staff were so desperate to please everyone all the time. In a way, it's laudable but in another, more accurate way, it's completely annoying and stupid. Not everything is your problem, guys. Not every percieved issue requires a draconian new ruling to prevent it happening. This is an internet message board - people are going to put short, snarky replies in threads sometimes. It's inevitable, and I don't see how it's a problem. Are posts a scarce resource? Should we be careful not to use them all up or something? Worst case scenario: someone clicks on a thread to see a reply and it turns out to be a pointless one. So what? No one's lost anything.
This is a small, friendly forum. It moderates itself. We have no spammers, no trolls, only a handful of people who ever start arguments (and they almost always resolve it without the intervention of staff). You don't need to keep starting these ridiculous debates. It just drives your contributors away.
An idea would be to create a thread under off topic where people can post in a more chat way if they want to. Make it sticky and remove the post count for it and tada, we have what we at my local clubs forum call “skitsnack” or “bullshit” thread.
I have to say, I didn’t understand the big postcount outcry when it first happened. Maybe this is because I’ve never been on a forum where people cared about such things (in fact, a high post count is often cause for derision. “get a life,” that sort of thing), so it was odd to me that the staff would try and limit post count and equally strange that members would mind.
I get it now, though. After spending more time here lately, I see that there are an mazing number of redundant posts and posts with no actual content whatsoever. I can’t imagine that these posts are being made for any other reason than to increase the “rank” of the member making them. I would never have complained about it, but I am glad to see it change. It really can discourage someone from investigating the site when the majority of threads are just chatty and nonsensical conversations among the same two or three people.
Tjub’s idea is probably a good one. If people really wanted to just chat, it would allow that, but I suspect that sort of activity would decrease if members didn’t feel they were getting a sort of reward for it.
EDIT: Ironically, that post transformed me from a hobgoblin into a full-fledged Chaos dwarf. Ignore everything above and throw me in with the spammers!
An idea would be to create a thread under off topic where people can post in a more chat way if they want to. Make it sticky and remove the post count for it and tada, we have what we at my local clubs forum call "skitsnack" or "bullshit" thread. :)
tjub
Im pretty sure i made an ~*|Official Spam Thread|*~ but it must have been deleated.
I think i understand why the staff felt the need to post this and im glad they did. The spam was starting to get reallly annoying. Thats why i really wanted the staff to fix the ignore list.
Thommy makes valid points about many things. For the most part, I agree with most of what he is saying. Sometimes short replies are better than long ones. As Willmark suggested, this is not the point. I myself make short replies to many topics, especially Hobby related ones where a quick praising, “That conversion is awesome. Great job with your GS!” What we are trying to discourage is flooding the boards with many replies in rapid succession that seem to indicate that the user is barely reading the thread that they are posting in.
For the most part, I would agree that the forum moderates itself. We have been lucky in this respect. But we are gaining more active members each day and we want to set a few ground rules as our numbers balloon.
Is this thread so truly draconian? Most forums have far more strict rules than these, I assure you. Does CDO have some magic formula that says we don’t need such rules? I am not sure that this is the case, but I do know that in the past few months we have had many complaints from many corners of the forum. Perhaps we do address them a bit zealously, but as far as I am aware I don’t think we have gone overboard with anything yet. Am I wrong? I could be. And I welcome your opinions on the matter.
The Off-Topic section is for exactly the purpose Tjub is describing. If you want to have fun and chat and build community spirit, that’s a great place to do it. And as Gaixo suggested. We want to reduce the amount of off-topic tangent posts in the other areas of the site.
I can assure you this: the days of adding 5 word or less responses that add nothing or as simple as “great job” or “I like that” are OVER
And…
And when I say �?osuggest�?�… that’s me being polite.
And…
There are those that are casting dispersion and disharmony on the site, that are causing members to consider leaving the site. We know who you are, and are watching. There will be more coming on that later.
And…
Ask yourself? Am I guilty of this behavior? If you are, you can control your own fate and we don�?Tt have to be involved, if not then we step in. Not only will this be in the form of PMs but inline moderation, in the threads themselves. If your behavior fits this pattern expect to be called on it. In short you will be seeing much more of a presence from the Staff, especially the Moderators.The Moderators have the full backing of the Administrators in this. If you are directed by a Moderator to get back on track and you don�?Tt, expect the Administrators to be siding with the Mods…
That is not how you offer a pleasant suggestion to improve a friendly site. That is how you deal with some kind of serious problem that’s erupted recently. Willmark’s whole post reads like the fallout from a massive issue and, frankly, this isn’t the first time this has happened - remember HB’s ill-fated swearing thread?
I may be wrong here, but I get the impression that there are some quite heated debates in the Staff forum, and you guys decide on something after a long argument, then come here and post about it, still fired up and thinking this is some big issue that needs to be brought to light. To us, it just looks like you’re making mountains out of molehills, and makes us not want to post, since apparently there’s now some huge clamp down on things that are arbitrarily judged to be not worthwhile!
To us, it just looks like you're making mountains out of molehills, and makes us not want to post, since apparently there's now some huge clamp down on things that are arbitrarily judged to be not worthwhile!
Thommy H
I am not sure that the post was meant to sound entirely friendly. It's meant to get a point across.
Thommy, I have always valued your opinion. Perhaps you disagree. But it still remains the staff's responsibility to keep this place running. I wasn't aware that you spoke for the site or that you were in tune with what makes people want to post or not. If you have some special access to knowledge pertaining to the consensus of the forums, I welcome the sharing of said information.
Im sure most people that reads this thread gets the message, “think before you post…”. And yes, I too think there has been alot of nonsense posts lately, but that doesnt mean you cant make short replys to ex. hobby threads as Xanders pointed out.
Not that big deal is it? And theres no need to start an argument about it…
But it still remains the staff's responsibility to keep this place running.
Did it stop running at some point? I must have missed the part where spam posts caused the forum to explode for no reason.
I wasn't aware that you spoke for the site or that you were in tune with what makes people want to post or not.
I'm in tune with what makes me post, which is a better frame of reference for ordinary members than any Staff member has. That's not supposed to be a veiled comment or anything - I just mean that, literally, by defintion, someone who isn't a member of the Staff is better qualified to speak for non-Staff than they are. And I was basing the "us" from what happened in the Swearing thread. This has happened before, and I've already had a PM from someone who agrees with me about this topic. So no, I can't speak for everyone (and wouldn't pretend to), but I can at least interpret a prevaling mood and make some predictions based on past trends.
You're chasing me away with this stuff. Maybe you won't chase other people away, but we had one high-profile walk out a short while ago (thankfully reversed). If you think the issue is with volume of spam (a problem I haven't even noticed - although maybe that's because I'm part of the percieved issue?) then I don't know what I can suggest. Nothing I've ever seen on this forum requires a thirteen paragraph post outlining new rules and guidelines for not spamming the board. We've never had a problem with spam. Why is this thread even happening? All it's achieved is the potential alienation of members.
Though I’ve noticed a fair few short replies here and there, they’ve certainly not bothered me. Even so, I have to disagree with a small point by Thommy H - such ‘draconian’ measures are incredibly productive for viable social lives. Imagine this - person is going to post, then remembers ‘THE RULES’ and thinks very carefully. Deciding there isn’t really any content, the user doesn’t post and instead lurks, ever quiet, in the sidelines of the forum. They essentially remain unseen, to a greater extent as more and more potential posts are lost to the all-consuming hunger of ‘THE RULES’. This evolves the basic traditional user in to the far superior ‘lurker’ who can come and go as they please, almost entirely unseen.
In a real life situation this can act almost as social camouflage, as not speaking out for fear of breaking a social rule prevents the person from drawing unwanted attention from predators and traveling salesmen - indeed such a behaviour is vitally important, nay, necessary, for a being to function. Stemming such flagrant abuse of free speech therefore leads to a greater avoidance of social harm.
As such I wholeheartedly applaud these intensive and uncompromising measures, for the safety of all. Be lurkers my friends, be lurkers.
Im sure most people that reads this thread gets the message, "think before you post...". And yes, I too think there has been alot of nonsense posts lately, but that doesnt mean you cant make short replys to ex. hobby threads as Xanders pointed out.
Not that big deal is it? And theres no need to start an argument about it...
tjub
I am of the same mind as you, Tjub. It's only a problem to be people who choose to make it one, it seems to me.
Great thanks to the stuff for making this decision.
I’m sure this hasn’t been an easy decision but still I think it was a necessary one. It’s undeniably that some make post after post on one topic without adding something “new” or even just to continue their offtopic discussion. While I don’t mind people talking offtopic or making useless comments now and then it becomes a pain to read through a topic that contains numerous “spam” posts. I must admit that I started to skip posts made by some persons while reading a topic because I don’t expect any interesting information there.
Still Tommy’s point is valid. Neither is a short post automaticly “spam” nor are longer posts “non-spam” by definition.
But as long as I’m not getting punished for posting an occasional one-liner I’m quite happy with this rule.
Lets see how this works in reality before yelling about it!
