Played a game against VC and didn’t have any luck to say the least, actually I got stomped into mud!
Not that I’m hung up on the 3 units of dire wolves charging first turn to tie up my Magma Cannon, Hellcannon and Iron Daemon effectively flipping the off switch on my heavy guns. The real killer of my army was the 18 model Vargheist Horde, or as I called it the Horde of Flying Death. On the second turn it charged into my Infernal Guard Horde (24 models strong) with my BSB and Deamonsmith (2nd lvl) and wiped them clean off the map! 60 S5 attacks, +6 stomps, he ended up hitting on 31 attacks, doing 21 wounds and I saved 3 of them… only to have my Daemonsmith, BSB and Standard Bearer get stomped to death!
I was in disbelief to say the least.
I know his Vargheist Horde costs 826pts, but he took out 750+ points on turn two only to then later on turn 4 wipe out my Bull Centaurs.
I really had no way to handle his dire wolves locking up my warmachines and his flying vampire count dishing out 7 attacks, with hatred and blood rage. He alone would do 10+ wounds every combat, not to mention his Potion of Strength!
Either way my buddy just wanted to “try out the army”, but I think he took a little too much pleasure in kicking the snot out of me to leave his tactics at the door.
So what type of army would you have made to take on a this kind of a VC army…
2,500pts
Lord:
Ghoul King Vamp; Blood Rage, Fly, Potion of Strength, +2A Magic Sword, Magic Lvl 1
Hero:
Wight Hero BSB
Necromancer: Lvl 2, Dispel Scroll
Core:
30 Zombies
40 Skeletons, Light Armor, Spears, Shields
2 Fell Bats
2 Fell Bats
15 Dire Wolves
15 Dire Wolves
15 Dire Wolves
Special:
10 Hexwraiths
18 Vargheists (The Flying Horde of Death)
My army was obviously ineffective, but here it is in a nutshell.
I know it’s pretty boring but a destroyer could hold them in place I expect while you get some flank charges in to finish it off with combat res.
Also how did they charge you on turn one? I don’t know the new list but you shouldn’t be getting charged that early on a standard board size. Maybe try setting up your army at the rear of your sldeployment zone your magma cannons alone would do massive damage to that death star in one turn.
"Not that I’m hung up on the 3 units of dire wolves charging first turn to tie up my Magma Cannon, Hellcannon and Iron Daemon effectively flipping the off switch on my heavy guns."
How did that happen? You can’t charge on the first turn. … If you went first and he went second he’s aloud to charge but I don’t see how he could have made the distance in a standard game and that would still give you time to shoot.
You should have had 1 round at least to smash his army. The vargheist horde especially would HATE the magma cannon.
Also, couldn’t your Hellcannon handle some pesky wolves?
Ash storm is that horde’s worst nightmare as they can’t do anything if you get it off.
Can you please provide some more info, it looks like his Vamp is just a solo killer? Or was he with the Varghulfs?
Anyway, cheers for the mini report, that varghulf horde sounds BRUTAL (as flying beastial semi vamps should be). They hit like a ton of bricks but can’t take it themselves. How were you running your IG? Fireglaive fire should hurt them, if you can get your shots off, then another turn of stand and shoot it should reduce the number of attacks drastically. I mean 60 is all of the buggers attacking I think, with warmachine fire you should be able to brutalise the horde before it gets to fight you. I know they are flying and fast as hell. Iron Daemon can dely even that mighty horde for quite a bit of time and the shooting should worry them
It’s refreshing to see such a vampire counts list though I must say. I personally think give it another couple of shots with your army. I see no reason why you can’t take out his list, especially with the double Magma cannon.
I mean, say you get the first turn, you can ash storm his Vargheist horde (makes em flammable) then Magma cannon them to death.
Also, make sure you spread out your war machines. Given he obviously wants to close as fast as possible, deploying war machines along the back edge might keep them alive that crucial turn longer. The exception to this is the Hellcannon which can hold its own.
Of course if you want to fight fire with fire you could always bring in the Destroyer which should stike first at Initiative 5. What initiative are the Vargheists?
Bull Centaurs are perfect from keeping the pesky wolves away from your war machines.
Can you also please spell out your full Sorcerer and BSB build as this can make a big difference. Plus i’m interested.
Anyway, cheers for the report and good luck. Please provide a bit more info on what happenned in your battle.
you can’t charge if you go first on the first turn. This for vanguard deployments and similar rules. But I think you can charge if you go second. Either way first turn charges shouldn’t be easy.
Even Move 9 Has a max charge range of 21 inches. Unless vampires have magic for extra move in to combat?
Played a game against VC and didn't have any luck to say the least, actually I got stomped into mud!
Not that I'm hung up on the 3 units of dire wolves charging first turn to tie up my Magma Cannon, Hellcannon and Iron Daemon effectively flipping the off switch on my heavy guns. The real killer of my army was the 18 model Vargheist Horde, or as I called it the Horde of Flying Death. On the second turn it charged into my Infernal Guard Horde (24 models strong) with my BSB and Deamonsmith (2nd lvl) and wiped them clean off the map! 60 S5 attacks, +6 stomps, he ended up hitting on 31 attacks, doing 21 wounds and I saved 3 of them... only to have my Daemonsmith, BSB and Standard Bearer get stomped to death!
I was in disbelief to say the least.
I know his Vargheist Horde costs 826pts, but he took out 750+ points on turn two only to then later on turn 4 wipe out my Bull Centaurs.
I really had no way to handle his dire wolves locking up my warmachines and his flying vampire count dishing out 7 attacks, with hatred and blood rage. He alone would do 10+ wounds every combat, not to mention his Potion of Strength!
Either way my buddy just wanted to "try out the army", but I think he took a little too much pleasure in kicking the snot out of me to leave his tactics at the door.
So what type of army would you have made to take on a this kind of a VC army...
2,500pts
Lord: Ghoul King Vamp; Blood Rage, Fly, Potion of Strength, +2A Magic Sword, Magic Lvl 1
Hero: Wight Hero BSB
Necromancer: Lvl 2, Dispel Scroll
Core: 30 Zombies
40 Skeletons, Light Armor, Spears, Shields
2 Fell Bats
2 Fell Bats
15 Dire Wolves
15 Dire Wolves
15 Dire Wolves
Special: 10 Hexwraiths
18 Vargheists (The Flying Horde of Death)
My army was obviously ineffective, but here it is in a nutshell.
Do skirmirshers get support attacks, I tought they didn't get them (I can't check it right now). But if they didn't get them the horde could only attack with the first row.
Do skirmirshers get support attacks, I tought they didn't get them (I can't check it right now). But if they didn't get them the horde could only attack with the first row.
Iirc, you just need to be behind a model in base contact to make supporting attacks, rather than 'ranks' per se.
60 S5 attacks, +6 stomps, he ended up hitting on 31 attacks, doing 21 wounds and I saved 3 of them... only to have my Daemonsmith, BSB and Standard Bearer get stomped to death!
How did all the Vargheists get into contact with 24IG? :o
And you only saved 3? Did you have shields? And how did your characters all get stomped to death, they are all T5, multi-wounds?
Looking at his army, he has 3 crucial targets: the Vargheist Deathstar, the Hexwraiths and the winged Lord. The rest is basically garbage when considering priorities.
A Destroyer should sort out the Vargheists.
A 6 dice Fireball from a Daemonsmith should get rid of most of the Hexwraiths.
If the Vampire is out on his own, I would recommend Demolition Shells from a Deathshrieker or two with re-rolls.
Ashstorm anyone who needs slowing down.
1.) You need a lot more troops, your army is both tiny and too static. Get a big block of IG. 30 in Horde is good.
2.) Hobgoblins are rubbish. Sack them.
3.) ID - I would go 2+ IDs or none. One is just too unwieldy and will have little impact on its own. No pun intended.
4.) The most obvious one. Get a Destroyer. I know it seems lame because everyone does it, but there is a reason for that. The LoA is not as well written as the 8th books, nowhere near. If you want to compete, the big man is a must.
Also don�?Tt forget that the Iron Daemon can stand and shoot as it is a unique unit, not a warmachine so you should have been able to take out at least some of the direwolves.
Did you not get any Vargheists with stand and shoot from your Fireglaves?
Depending on the scenario being played, it’s entirely possible to charge on Turn 1 (the diagonal deployment or watchtower scenarios for example). I’m not aware of any rule (expect for scouting or vanguard movements) that prevent turn 1 charges…
I think tournament players will LOVE the new vamps book.
Also, remember that the Iron Daemon can Thunderstomp warbeasts too, to the little doggies should not be so much of a problem (unless they made them monstrous beasts)
So the vargheist charged on turn two, the dire wolves charged after I moved things back on turn one (vangaurd put them 21" off the opposing table edge, and then all three charged 17", 18" and 19").
I should have just moved up and shot as opposed to moving my line back, but either I never knew the Iron Deamon could stand and shoot. I totally missed that!
But the vargheist totally annihilated my unit! As for the stomp attacks, I had questions because the 6 models were in combat in the beginning, but after their attacks only 3 were in B2B since they killed all but three of my guys. My friend insisted that stomps are done counting original number of combatants, not the end, or else he said you could argue that some supporting models, might not be able to attack if the front rank models killed what was in front of the when rolling to wound. So I let him unload 6 strength 5 stomp hits, all at -2 save, he did 5 wounds and I didn’t save any (needed 6’s). Bye bye BSB and Daemonsmith.
Seriously though 60 attacks and flying… What the hell! And now skirmishers to boot (-1 to shoot at). Other than an army of flame cannons how the hell to you take this kind of army down?
Still wondering… And potential anti-VC lists would be welcomed.
Page 50 of the Warhammer Rulebook: “Split Profiles and Striking Order”. Second paragraph is the one you want. Stomp has the Always Strikes Last rule, so is effectively resolved as an additional (automatically hitting) Attack after anyone with Initiative 1 has struck their blows. And, as page 50 makes clear, if there are no eligible enemy models to fight at that point, the attack just doesn’t happen. He should only have resolved three Stomps against you.
How do you take them down? They’re Toughness 4 with no armour save - I suggest shooting them with almost any gun in the game.
One turn of shooting is not much defense against a unit with 70+ wounds. And since they’re flyers, you can’t redirect them. I honestly don’t know of any army, Vampire Counts included, that could take that charge. Even fully buffed Chosen would lose. Flying monsterous infantry skirmishers - thanks GW…
If I knew that kind of junk was being fielded, I think a unit of 150 Hobbos with bows would hold it. Um…what else…
