[Archive] The Black Dwarf(2)


Hello, this is my first post and I am a Dwarf collector from the Bugmans Brewery site. I just wanted to get some info about the original Black Dwarf, the LE4 model. Sorry if this is in wrong section

I read on your wiki that you class him as a Chaos Dwarf but I was wondering where you got this info from? I can find no info saying hes a Chaos Dwarf other than the scenario in WD200 where he is classed as a Chaos Sorceror. Another model is shown for this scenario and the original model is quite clearly not a Sorceror. He is a pirate as far as I am aware and a take on Black Beard. Now some may say well a pirate would be Chaos or Evil but I thought anything in that category wouldnt follow any rules or laws so the Pirates Code would not have been invented or followed if they were evil\chaotic. Some say he looks chaotic but so does Kludz from “The Up The Wall Crew” and he isnt a chaos Dwarf.

The Black Dwarf was released at the same time as the slotta Chaos Dwarfs so why wasnt he included in the list? He was put in the LE section where novelty figures such as Robin Hood Dwarf, Clint Eastwood and Santa Dwarf were placed…

The only connection that I can see to the 2 figures is the name. Can anyone clarify things for me please?

many thanks


Heres a post I made on the Bugmans forum, feel free to disagree with it but please give evidence for your reasons if you do


I’ve been doing a bit of digging around for info on the original Black Dwarf as it is claimed he is a Chaos Dwarf and thats news to me.

I have been on the Chaos Dwarf forum and they cant provide any evidence to support their claim that he is a Chaos Dwarf. I have also asked on the CCM site which is full of people with massive collections and knowledge and they cant give any evidence he is a Chaos Dwarf either.

As far as I can tell he has been lumped in this category due to his name and the look of his breast plate\armour. This is madness though as Kludz from “Up the Wall Crew” looks like a Chaos Dwarf, released at the same sort of time but ISNT one, hes a good guy. The Ironclaw Dwarfs which were also released at roughly the same time have armour and shields with the same sort of decorations but these arent Chaos Dwarves either.

The Black Dwarf is featured in WD200 and I have just read this and it has nothing to do with the original figure. The one in there is a Chaos Dwarf sorceror and a young one at that, relatively unknown. If The Black Dwarf is the arch enemy of the White Dwarf then surely he would be a more prominent figure? There have been 4 or 5 versions of the White Dwarf but only one of the Black Dwarf. In WD200 it says “We’ve no plans to bring out a model of the Black Dwarf” and has no mention of bringing out a “New” model of the Black Dwarf so its as though they arent connected.

Why would a standard Chaos Dwarf be placed in the LE section which at the time was being used for novelty figures such as Clint Eastwood Dwarf, Santa Dwarf, Robin Hood Dwarf etc. Doesnt it make more sense that he was modelled on Black Beard the pirate which would give him a reason to go in the LE section?

I could do a wiki for Dwarfs and claim that the Black Dwarf is the first incarnation of Lord Drong the Pirate as there is a lot more resemblance to each other but assumption doesnt constitute proof of anything.

To round up, any of those that have this figure should feel free to use it in their army as until theres evidence of what alignment he is then both Dwarfs and Chaos Dwarfs should be able to use him.


Ishkur Cinderhat:

Well if this is the miniature that your are talking about, I would think that the mutated belly and the tentacled thing there classify him as a dwarf that has definitely felt more of the raw energies of Chaos than he should have. :slight_smile:

Personally though, this is the first time I have seen that miniature and I don’t know anything about his background.

Kera foehunter:

Of all thing that is holy i have to get one of them

Thommy H:

To round up, any of those that have this figure should feel free to use it in their army as until theres evidence of what alignment he is then both Dwarfs and Chaos Dwarfs should be able to use him.
I'm pretty sure anyone can use anything as any kind of model they want anyway.

Now, if you look at the relevant page (here) it doesn't actually say he's a Chaos Dwarf (I should know - I wrote it), just that he's a model from 3rd Edition and he's included for completists: since there was a Chaos Dwarf special character of the same name in White Dwarf, it seemed prudent to make mention of the original.

Now, to address some of the wider points in your post: perhaps you'd consider caring a little less about completely and utterly irrelevant things? This is toy soldiers - we don't have to provide "evidence" of anything. If you think he's not a Chaos Dwarf, then that's fine. You class him as whatever you want. We think he counts, if only because of the tenuous connection to a later character.


Don’t write anyone off just yet, you’ve given people less than a day to respond!

I don’t know of anything that tied the old Black Dwarf model to Chaos Dwarfs, but the character with the same name does confuse things. Harvestmouse probably knows more, he’s on Hand of Hashut.

How was Kludge a good guy? Wasn’t he part of a street gang?

It looks like Stuff of Legends have the Black Dwarf in the LE area because he was numbered as being LE4. Are you saying he wasn’t limited edition?


@ Ishkur Cinderhat: Thats the fella. Please check this page for the Ironclaw Dwarfs that were released at teh same time and arent Chaos Dwarves (pretty sure they arent anyway). They have similar markings on shields and armour…

Dwarfs - Unlisted Ironclaw - CcmWiki

@ Kera foehunter: I think theres one on Ebay in the Dwarf section at the moment, was on there yesterday anyway :slight_smile:

@ Thommy H: read the top line on that page mate… I am not too worried about what he is as I dont actually play wargames but people on the Bugmans site claim hes a Chaos Dwarf purely because you have it written on your wiki. They wont buy or use him because of this.

@ cornixt: lol sorry for being impatient but saw 20 odd people had viewed with no reply. Hopefully HavestMouse can clarify things a bit. Kludz is part of the Up the wall crew (ones with Urinals) and is a Castrator from whats in his hand. Theres 3 other normal Dwarfs in the set and when have you heard of chaos dwarfs and normal ones being sold together?

No I’m not saying he isnt LE4, he is, but why would a standard Chaos Dwarf go into that section? No normal Dwarf went into LE at that time. He was released shortly after pre-slotta ended and could have been on the workbench with the other character figs of that time (Clint eastwood, robin hood etc) but just didnt get released in time for pre-slotta so was converted to slotta.

Ishkur Cinderhat:

[...] people on the Bugmans site claim hes a Chaos Dwarf purely because you have it written on your wiki.  They wont buy or use him because of this.

*lol*  Gee, mate -

a) tell these people to get a life! :D

b) ask the sculptor if it was meant to be a Chaos Dwarf or not. It seems to me that this is his website where you can also find an email link.

Thommy H:

They wont buy or use him because of this.
Ah, well, more fool them then. I knew someone was treating Warhammer like it was Serious Business. Apologies for assuming it was you. I can't imagine someone caring so much about exactly what an old model is (besides "a good sculpt" or "a bad sculpt") that they wouldn't use it in their armies.


but people on the Bugmans site claim hes a Chaos Dwarf purely because you have it written on your wiki. They wont buy or use him because of this.

Sounds like they're living the Dwarf attitude to the hilt!! We'd best be careful or end up in the Book of Grudges, Vol #XXII.

I wouldn't take 20 views and no replies as a diss, Perv. I don't think there are that many miniature historians around. I'm surprised that the readership here knows as much as they do about the metal history of WH models, but they have impressed me many times in the few weeks I've been active on the site.

That being said, the dwarf looks kinda evil to me...

/stirs pot


lol yes we do take it all too seriously, me included even if I havent ever played a wargame. Being a Dwarf lover does have its disadvantages…With the prices of some figs its a VERY serious business :slight_smile:

I didnt realise it was one of Bobs figs. I was only talking to him on email last week. I’ve spoken to him about figs he did for GW before and he cant remember anything but hopefully he will this one.

Sorry I didnt take it as a diss, I just thought no one had any answers to it so thought I’d expand the post a bit. That Dwarf looks very evil on the SOL site but if you look at the other paintjob on your site, he doesnt look so chaosy. Amazing what a good paintjob can do !!!

I’ll let ya know what Bob says


I found Perv’s post on Bugman’s Brewery as well, as being member of it. Reading all this trough, I think you guys are a little overreacting.

First of all, Perv just found out that the White Dwarf, THE White Dwarf, a model that excists in 5 different sculps and has about 330 magazines on his name, has a direct enemy, called the Black Dwarf, and large communities can’t confirm what he is. Ofcourse he is excited, wouldn’t you be when you’ve collected all excisting Chaos Dwarfs and found out the Dwarves have something special, relative to for example the Bull Centaur as well? That’s not the main point why I’m replying here, anyways.

Perv says something about Bugmans Brewery. Reactions are "tell these people to get a life! " and “Ah, well, more fool them then. I knew someone was treating Warhammer like it was Serious Business.”. Why, again? Is the hostility against Dwarves that big, that you immediately need to posts such comments to a community which you probaly don’t even know? Just wanted you to realise that, no hostility from here to you (neither do I think this is the opinion of all of you), but found it a little overreacting.

You might want to look me up at the Brewery: you can find me under the name “Tungdil Goldhand” there. I still haven’t came up with a nice original CD name yet, if you found my name a little weird. And yes, I do got some CD’s for myself :slight_smile:

Ishkur Cinderhat:

Huh, no one here said that the people at Bugman’s are idiots.

I think you see clearly in the quoted posts that these were just reactions to the phrase

people on the Bugmans site claim hes a Chaos Dwarf purely because you have it written on your wiki.  They wont buy or use him because of this.
Which, frankly, sounds quite ridiculous. If it’s true.

But there is no hostility towards dwarf players. Many here actually collect dwarfs as well anyway.

Thommy H:

Why, again? Is the hostility against Dwarves that big
I don't have any hostility towards anyone who has the same pastime as me: I just think anyone making a big deal about something as minor (even by the internal standards of the hobby) as whether a model is a Dwarf or a Chaos Dwarf is maybe forgetting that it is a hobby.

Plus, all this Serious Business-ing was mixed in with the implication that people were just collecting figures and not painting them or playing any games with them, which just weirds me out anyway. It's not often I meet people who care what a figure is rather than what you can do with it.


It’s true. Still, it goes too far in my opinion to ask if a whole community would please get a life. It isn’t anything personal really, not to you not to CD’s or something, just wanted you to be aware of your words, since they don’t make sense either. Now please continue searching to the Black Dwarf’s origin, since I’m very interested what he’s all about :slight_smile:


I’m going to update the wiki.  Retro-actively changing history before your very eyes!

And it is done: [[Chaos Dwarf Catalog]]

Father Grumpmas:

This is excellent stuff - a bit of Law Dwarf vs Chaos Dwarf biffo over figure rights :slight_smile: (I am being ironic in case anyone is feeling a bit hot under the collar about this).

There are a few figures around that have co-opted into the Chaos Dwarf Canon despite not offically being Chaos Dwarfs:

The Black Dwarf (cause he looks chaotic and there is a reference to a Chaos Black Dwarf)

This guy, as explained in his SOL listing


Kludge from the ‘Up the wall’ gang, because again he looks chaotic


The dwarf ninja, who is supposingly undead, is also prized by CD collecters

I have always thought there were quite a figures from Dwarf/Chaos Dwarf ranges that crossed over: some of the Norse Dwarfs, particularly the berserkers, would not look out of place with 3rd ed CD figures, while the Rambo Dwarf from the CD range has absolutely nothing chaotic about him and looks more like a novelty figure for Law Dwarfs.

Still, always great to see discussion over old figures and remember, whether you worship the Ancestors or Hashut, it is the pointy eared elfs who must DIE! :hat off


I have hostility…but thats towards them pointy eared fellas :slight_smile:

I’m not saying nobody will use The Black Dwarf on Bugmans forum but some wont consider him one they can use if they think hes Chaos. Thats a big diference I’ve noticed from here to Bugmans, people here use normal Dwarfs in their Chaos armies but no one seems to use Chaos Dwarves in their normal Dwarf army, not even converted. Maybe its down to amount of figures available?

Laikalappie I know it looks like they are being hostile with that comment but I think its down to the way I type and word things rather than anyone having the hump with Bugmans peoples views. If I had more tact and worded things better then there wouldnt be a problem mate :slight_smile:

Collectors care what a fig is completely, not what they can do with it.  When you’re collecting a range you want them all so having things labelled incorectly realy does make life hard, good conversions make life a nightmare too lol.  I Guess wargamers and collectors are opposites there.

Hopefuly Bob wil reply soon and we can confirm just what he is.  Probably a Gnome… :slight_smile:

lol I dont think anyone is geting hot under the collar yet, if you keep claiming Kludge is a Chaos one I might :slight_smile: Just kidding you’re right there are so many Dwarfs that could work for either, I didnt realise…

Kera foehunter:

Thanks pervfor the e-bay note. it great to see guys from bugsman over here.


no wories mate, I only came here for info but I think I may stay a bit :slight_smile: Try to convert some o ya !!!