Nicodemus:
Week 10 Double-header: Iron Daemon and Skullcracker
Welcome to the tenth chapter in the Daemonsmith’s Handbook! Please post your tips and tactics for the Iron Daemon and Skullcracker here.
Some suggested topics for discussion:
- Deployment
- Tactics
- Upgrade options
- Usability and effectiveness vs. other choices for the army.
Vogon:
Unfortunately since my early successes with the Iron Daemon (against ogres)I have not had much opportunity to field one as most of my recent games have been of too low a points value to justify its inclusion.
The things I have to offer are pretty much self-explanatory.
The St6 D3 wounds shots from the steam cannonade are awesome against monstrous infantry or monsters.
While the impact hits are a useful addition the fact that once in combat it only gets a thunderstomp and 3 crew attacks means it�?Ts close combat effectiveness is limited to units of man sized infantry. Setting up a charge really needs it to work in conjunction with at least one other unit (Preferably a nice large IG with a Castellan) so the target unit can be held in place while the Iron daemon charges at a flank.
One thing to watch for is an opponent who takes a magic user with the lore of metal (a favourite of one of my regular opponents) the lore attribute that mean that the armour save is used as the roll to wound can really put a crimp in an Iron daemon�?Ts day.
On the whole I like them and will be fielding them again once we get into slightly bigger games than we�?Tre playing at the moment (probably after Christmas)
Cheers
Vogon
Grimbold Blackhammer:
I’ve used either a Skullcracker or an Iron Daemon in every one of my lists and I vastly prefer the Iron Daemon. Because it is so tricky to charge with, I invariably have a turn or two where I’m just moving to get into position and that usually let’s me fire my cannonade into something. And while it’s useful for knocking down Ogres and such, it’s also a quick way to get rid of other pesky redirectors coming your way. If the Skullcracker left the cannonade intact I’d say take it but to pay points for something I find so useful doesn’t suit my play style.
I always purchase the Hellbound upgrade - I’ve lost count of the number of times being T8 or finishing the game with a single wound left has made the difference!
Terrain is the bane of this model’s existence. Deployment is pretty critical to how this guy will perform. If he’s caught on the wrong side of a piece of terrain mid-battle, it’s basically out of action for the entire game.
Vardan Painkiller:
I use it always with both possible upgrades, making it 340 points.
With BS 3 and random number of shots canonade just doesnt do it for me.
What i learned some time ago, Iron deamon CAN pivot before steam boiler move, it is only prohibited from turning and wheeling. Also never declare charges with deamon, enemy get lousy ASf but looses reaction, so you can destroy pesky trash units etc.
Another thing is that ID can pivot and move forward so it can get in contact with unit it doesnt see, or better he can charge with pivot allone.
Major drawback is anything bigger than infantry- if u cant thunderstomp it, dont get charged, against bigger models you can only count on impact hits from initial charge, after that if enemy wont break your preety much stuck, 3 S3 attacks wont kill ogres or 1+ AS knights ( or even 2+ AS knights). there is a chance that they will slowly dismantle ID, but small.
Skullcracking ID is very very effective on infantry based armies like HE chaos beastmen etc but can be succesfuly used to ground particularly powerfull unit of its bane type, if u need to hold them to attack from the back with infantry or K’day or just hold and kill everything else.
Its 60-100 mm base is quite nice to avoid stone throwers but dont face cannons head on.
Thommy H:
What i learned some time ago, Iron deamon CAN pivot before steam boiler moveThat's a very interesting interpretation of the phrase "moves this distance forward in a straight line".
Vardan Painkiller:
Pivot doesnt make it NOT move in straight line, and rules later on clearly state what maneuvers are not allowed, its wheel and turn. Core rules allow you to pivot once in the beggining and ID's specific rules do not prohibit it.What i learned some time ago, Iron deamon CAN pivot before steam boiler moveThat's a very interesting interpretation of the phrase "moves this distance forward in a straight line".
Thommy H
Thommy H:
The core rules say that individual models, such as chariots (which are the movement rules the Iron Daemon follows unless specified otherwise), can pivot and turn freely at any point during their movement. This would include at the beginning of their movement. But, since the Iron Daemon’s rules for the boiler movement specifically preclude wheeling or turning of any kind, and say “move forward in a straight line”, I don’t see why they would get to have one “free” pivot at the beginning. Random Movement lets you pivot like that, but the Iron Daemon doesn’t get the Random Movement special rule - it just moves “forward in a straight line” a certain distance, and can’t turn or wheel as it does so.
Vardan Painkiller:
Well i am not that good at rules, but as far as my knowledge is, the first part up to using steam boiler is just fluff, same as deathrocket exploding in the air and spawning demonic napalm.
It is not my own interpretation though, i belive that it is important that ID rules specify prohibited types of maneuvers as wheel and turn during its move, first pivot doesnt count, cos id isnt moving yet- or so i understand. I know it from our country rules clarification commite who also happens to be involved in winning ETC and he is rly reasonable guy unlike most RAW rules lawyers.
( with RAW being ppl who play rouges in D&D and try to backstab with balista cos it’s not written they can’t 
)
This could be open to debate though i dont cliam its one and only truth, but ATC on TWF could be asked about it too.
Skink:
Well i am not that good at rules, but as far as my knowledge is, the first part up to using steam boiler is just fluff, same as deathrocket exploding in the air and spawning demonic napalm.Nope! That has got its own rules too:)!
Vardan Painkiller
Da Crusha:
the Iron deamon can’t pivot before you engage the boilers.
If you take the Hellbound upgrade the ID’s shots don’t become magical right? The answer was posted here but I can’t find it anymore…a sticky situation.
Skink
Vardan Painkiller:
I think that rules clearly state what becomes magical- and its not the shots.
But this spawned another question- Skullcracker makes impact Hits 2d6 or 2d6+2?
I know that rocket has its own description, but rules wise its only important how to shoot not what it shoots with, Exactly the same way, precise rules prohibit 2 manuvers but not the pivot- fluff description is not important- especialy that full upgraded ID costs 340 pts and cant chase or overrun, thats why its allowed to pivot, it is not game breaking.
Da Crusha:
I know that rocket has its own description, but rules wise its only important how to shoot not what it shoots with, Exactly the same way, precise rules prohibit 2 manuvers but not the pivot- fluff description is not important- especialy that full upgraded ID costs 340 pts and cant chase or overrun, thats why its allowed to pivot, it is not game breaking.it can't pivot. on pg 27 of the small rulebook it says, charge moves do not allow pivots.
Vardan Painkiller
Vardan Painkiller:
Da Crusha, please read my whole first post, you dont have to declare ID charges, if you dont enemies simply get ASF, which will not hurt you.
zhatan87:
pg 193 does not specify the shots do not have magical attacks.It's stated in the hellbound rule : all attacks and damages are magical.
Vardan Painkiller:
They precise not only that but also that impacts are magical, Hellbound is main rule which get precise descriptions near ID entry, thus shoots are not magical, unless WF faq changesthat, or depending on gaming agreements of players.
Da Crusha:
Da Crusha, please read my whole first post, you dont have to declare ID charges, if you dont enemies simply get ASF, which will not hurt you.thats called cheating. you have to declare a charge to engage in close combat. if you engage the boilers and unintentionally engage an enemy then they get asf. emphasis on unintentionally. if you do it on purpose its not an unintentional. it's cheating.
Vardan Painkiller
Vardan Painkiller:
After meditating on rules i think i was initialy wrong when it comes to magical attacks, canonade should inndeed be magical, otherwise other warmachines would have magical nothing ( not crew and not shooting) it was inndeed clarification that both impacts and thunderstomp count. I know more now thanks to you.
I am not sure how ur english is, but pivoting and moving still fits definition of move forward in straight line
as hammer of hashut spell, else u can only cast it in 1 direction always.
Letts get in depth of turn maneuver- yes it is obsolete, as rules were clearly written in previous edition in mind as FW and main GW are not as compatybile as they could be- BUT there were pivots in 7th edition and those were clearly not prohibited.
You could argue that pivots are old turns if not for the fact i mentioned- there were pivots. Also as movement is described, ID cant change direction of its movement when it is moving, so it cant make zig-zag or charge without declaration units BEHIND something, like terrain or other unit.
Everything in ID rules have consequences, some are positive for ChD, some negative.
Now Crushie plese refrain from calling my way of gaming cheating, i dont lie about rules, i dont move units when opponents dont look, more over before every game i explained it to my opponents and made sure they know about ID charge without declaration and its consequences, it simply changed some maneuvers for them thats all.
Ender SpiteSworn:
I am not sure how ur english is, but pivoting and moving still fits definition of move forward in straight lineOut of all the Chaos Dwarf players I have met in person and online (me included) you are the only one I have every heard of as interpretting the rule this way. It simply does not make sense that you can pivot and then engauge the boiler. It would mean you have an 360 effective charge threat. Read the rules again, you either move normally or engage the boiler (thus go straight). You can't make a partial move (aka pivot) then engage the boiler.
as hammer of hashut spell, else u can only cast it in 1 direction always.
Letts get in depth of turn maneuver- yes it is obsolete, as rules were clearly written in previous edition in mind as FW and main GW are not as compatybile as they could be- BUT there were pivots in 7th edition and those were clearly not prohibited.
You could argue that pivots are old turns if not for the fact i mentioned- there were pivots. Also as movement is described, ID cant change direction of its movement when it is moving, so it cant make zig-zag or charge without declaration units BEHIND something, like terrain or other unit.
Everything in ID rules have consequences, some are positive for ChD, some negative.
Now Crushie plese refrain from calling my way of gaming cheating, i dont lie about rules, i dont move units when opponents dont look, more over before every game i explained it to my opponents and made sure they know about ID charge without declaration and its consequences, it simply changed some maneuvers for them thats all.
Vardan Painkiller
Vardan Painkiller:
One of 5 guys that make polish rules clarifications, and ETC winner last yer told me i can do pivot, and maby instead of checking if you have met what i say, check if pivot is forbidden… I declave the boiler then pivot then move in straight line.
Ender SpiteSworn:
One of 5 guys that make polish rules clarifications, and ETC winner last yer told me i can do pivot, and maby instead of checking if you have met what i say, check if pivot is forbidden.. I declave the boiler then pivot then move in straight line.The best source for information on the chaos dwarves (other then forgeworld) is this forum. No one here is agreeing with you. I have played this list extensively in tournaments and friendly games. Maybe the language your rules are translated in are unclear. The English rules are not. You can not pivot then engage the boilers nor pivot after you engage them. I'm not disagreeing with you arbitrarily. If you are doing this you are using your own house rules, make sure this is clear to your opponents.
Vardan Painkiller