Nicodemus:
Week 8.5: Magma Cannon
In order to catch us up a little and keep pace with everything we want to cover - Welcome to the eight-and-a-bit-th chapter in the Daemonsmith’s Handbook! Please post your Magma Cannon tips and tactics here.
Some suggested topics for discussion:
- Deployment
- Tactics
- Upgrades (To Hellbound or not to Hellbound)
- Ideal Number to field, etc
Da Crusha:
the magma cannon is probably the best warmachine available to chaos dwarfs. the long range and the accuracy of a cannon combined with the reroll capabilities of the deamonsmith make it very reliable. the D3 wounds are effective for killing multiple wound models which can be combined with ashstorm to make units flammable for double damage. the magma cannon is a must in most lists, but beware,… you may lose friends when you start to bring 3 or more of these fantastic war machines.
Lava Lord:
Question for ya’ll that will be adding info here. For deployment is it better to have two cannon closer together for protection or apart for the same reason… Thanx:cheers
Da Crusha:
I usually deploy them together because either the rest of the army is deployed around them or I have dedicated one unit to protect them.
Time of Madness:
I rarely ever take 2 (generally I take 2 skriekers and 1 magma), but if I did take 2 I’d place them close to eachother. Then you can easily slide a smith between them.
The magma cannon is by far the best warmachine in the list for the points. S5 D3 wound template using the cannon rules to fire, yes please! My opponents spend a lot of time focusing on this thing.
Time of Madness
propervillanz:
I am humbly of the opinion that magma cannons are the best war machines in the game. You always want to keep a Deamonsmith around to ensure misfires don’t take them off the board to early.
If you do have a Deamonsmith babysit them make sure he is exposed and take the charmed shield as it should help your cannnons stay on the field a bit longer.
They are awesome when coupled with Ashstorm or Ruby Sword of Rhuin both greatly increase their damage output.
Whatever other artillery pieces you decide to take with it you want to concentrate fire on a single unit as much as possible to increase the devastation.
Finally, i believe the status quo is to measure distance from the back of the enemy unit you are aiming for to ensure a good template placement.
Bolg:
If shooting at a unit with a few ranks place the template so that it just hits the first 3 models, then whatever you roll it will hit the unit. if the unit only has 2 or so ranks place the template a few millimeters less of 2" away from the unit. than once again you cant miss, its just a matter of how many you hit.
If you have a second war machine of any other kind you dont need a 2nd.
For deployment, place it between a unit and a Hellcannon so may units wont be able to charge it.
frogbear:
I am curious as to the template placement. From my reading of the rules, you place a marker where you expect it to hit and then roll an arty dice to see where it actually lands. It is at that point that you place the template to see what you hit.
In that respect, would it not be best to have the first point land ~3" before the target to ensure a hit anywhere from 2" - 10" on the overshoot?
Bolg:
From my reading of the rules, you place a marker where you expect it to hit and then roll an arty dice to see where it actually lands. It is at that point that you place the template to see what you hit.Or you have it wrong, or we have a translation error here. but what will happen:
frogbear
frogbear:
Your version is quite a bit more powerful.From my reading of the rules, you place a marker where you expect it to hit and then roll an arty dice to see where it actually lands. It is at that point that you place the template to see what you hit.Or you have it wrong, or we have a translation error here. but what will happen:
frogbear
Place template
Roll artillery die
if 2,4,6,8 or 10 come up
move template that many " forward.
Bolg
fattdex:
don’t have the book here, but http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=12234&pid=205801#pid205801 is how i had read the book and did it. place template with the skinny end facing the cannon, then shift it forward by the arty dice number. from memory it tells you how to place the flame template?
frogbear:
don't have the book here, but http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=12234&pid=205801#pid205801 is how i had read the book and did it. place template with the skinny end facing the cannon, then shift it forward by the arty dice number. from memory it tells you how to place the flame template?Mo it says fures like a cannon and no bounce.
fattdex
fattdex:
I’m not seeing the difference here…
frogbear:
OK. When before you fire a cannon you nominate a point on the table and then roll the arty dice to find out where it first lands. To reach the point between the point you chose and where it actually lands no-one (please advise if I am wrong) can be hit by the ball. At the point it lands, you then do the bounce that then hits troops.
So now relate that to the Magma Cannon:
When before you fire a cannon you nominate a point on the table and then roll the arty dice to find out where it first lands. To reach the point between the point you chose and where it actually lands no-one (please advise if I am wrong) can be hit by the Magma.
This is opposed to what is happening in other examples where the last sentence seems to read:
To reach the point between the point you chose and where it actually lands everyone touched is hit by the magma.
My point is the template does not hit the table until after you find the final position of the arty dice.
The other (more powerful) example is to place the template and then move it via the arty dice (wrong IMO)
Hoping that is clearer ;)
Singleton Mosby:
:)I am not sure if I understand you correctly, but do you mean it is possible to have a "flame" of the templates size + the number of inches rolled on tjhe arty-dice?
OK. When before you fire a cannon you nominate a point on the table and then roll the arty dice to find out where it first lands. To reach the point between the point you chose and where it actually lands no-one (please advise if I am wrong) can be hit by the ball. At the point it lands, you then do the bounce that then hits troops.
So now relate that to the Magma Cannon:
When before you fire a cannon you nominate a point on the table and then roll the arty dice to find out where it first lands. To reach the point between the point you chose and where it actually lands no-one (please advise if I am wrong) can be hit by the Magma.
This is opposed to what is happening in other examples where the last sentence seems to read:
To reach the point between the point you chose and where it actually lands everyone touched is hit by the magma.
My point is the template does not hit the table until after you find the final position of the arty dice.
The other (more powerful) example is to place the template and then move it via the arty dice (wrong IMO)
Hoping that is clearer ;)
frogbear
frogbear:
Mosbt
That is what i am saying others above me aee diing wrong.
I am against it as well
Nicodemus:
Just to more clearly articulate the point here. What I believe Frogbear has been tring to say, and the way that I understand the rules for working out what has been hit with the Magma Cannon, is that this warmachine can only hit models that are under the teardrop shaped template. The key point to make is that the template isn’t placed on the table until after the target is selected and the artillery[i/] die is rolled, which advances the targeted point that many inches along a straight line from the bore of the cannon. Once the adjusted location of the target point has been determined, only then is the template placed and number of effected models determined.
It’s still a darn good warmachine by my reckoning!
~N
Bolg:
...or we have a translation error here...I think is the case. or to be better but. a Language Barrier.
Bolg
Place templateI should have said "Place marker" not "place template"
Roll artillery die
if 2,4,6,8 or 10 come up
move template that many " forward.
Bolg
Nicodemus:
I think you’ve got it right Bolg. The cannon rules state to initially mark the intended target with a counter or coin, knowing that it’s going to overshoot by at least 2".
Now measure from the barrel to the intended target point, roll the artillery die, extend the measurement from the barrel of the cannon to where the actual target is.
For a cannon, you would now work out the bounce. The Tamurkhan book says (quoting directly from p178) “instead of rolling to ‘Bounce’ the shot, instead palce the teardrop-shaped template…”.
So from the wording of the rules I don’t see any justification for placing the template before the final step. Sure you can use anything you like as your target marker, even the small end of the template I suppose (provided you and your opponent understand where the centre point is intended to be), but this use of the template shouln’t be to gain additional targets along the entire traversed path from intended target to actual target.
That’s just been my take on the process. If there’s still ambiguity then I guess we may need a clarification for working out what is actually hit.
~N
PS I’m glad these kinds of things have been coming up (see also the Daemonsmith’s Handbook entry for the Hellcannon) as this is all part-and-parcel of what the Daemonsmith’s Handbook is supposed to be about, not just what you could put into your army… but also how to properly use what you have and make better players/opponents out of all of us! :cheers
Da Crusha:
personally I think all of this back and forth on the way it fires should be in another thread.