The recent uncovering of the new Nagash model got me thinking a bit about sculpting trends in Games Workshop throughout the editions. Thinking enough, actually, to set up this thread.
It’s an entirely subjective thread for people to catalogue what they think are the best era of Warhammer miniatures. It’s not so much a discussion as a record of opinions, in case anyone wants to get it off his/her chest.
It’s subjective, but let’s try some objectivity if possible.
Who knows, maybe even some sculptor someday stumbles across a thread like this and finds useful feedback?
One format to go after could be this, if you like:
Declaring…
Entry edition(s): This is bound to correlate with your favourite edition and your appointed golden edition(s). Nostalgia plays a part, but there’s also the thing that certain editions’ styles might have been part of what drew us into the hobby, simply because they suited our tastes.
Favourite edition(s) all round (including background, price and White Dwarf stuff): Also bound to correlate with the rest.
Golden edition(s) of WHFB miniatures: Miniatures-only. Not based so much on single outstanding models, but on the look of the edition’s ranges as a whole. Feel free to argue for your points.
A few links or photos of the best which the golden edition(s) have/had to offer.
A few honourable mentions of miniatures from other editions. Including particularly good categories of miniatures (eg. Elves, Greenskins, monsters, characters, infantry, plastic cavalry).
And that’s it. I’ll start, with Nagash as an example to get the point across:
Favourite: 6th and 8th editions. 6th not least for quality minis, background and WD stuff, 8th for gaming and also nice plastic kits.
Golden edition of minis: 6th edition.
First of all, don’t get me wrong.
There are lots of good stuff with miniatures from editions both older and newer than 6th, and I could point to lots of masterclass works both older and younger that rivals or even beats most of the best of what 6th edition had to offer. I very much like Warhammer models from every edition and is all for mixing editions into the same units. My first miniature was the old Thorgrim from 4th edition.
Still, despite monkey-handed and often clumsy plastic kits (which did have lots of parts, though), 6th edition’s WHFB ranges as a whole did the greatest impression on me. They still do.
The main reason for this was superbly sculpted metal miniatures, often human-sized. The monsters and cavalry were OK on the whole, but the metal infantry, characters and to some degree also monstrous infantry was often gorgeous. 6th edition’s style had a kind of refined strike out for realism and restraint compared to 4th/5th and 7th/8th eds.
Let’s take a look on the old and the new Nagash. Both have merits and flaws, and there are good reasons in both miniatures for people to like one or both of ‘em.
Still, both models seem far from what the ultimate Nagash model could be. To my mind it would probably have been something of a cross-breed between the Lotr Necromancer and the best which 6th edition had to offer. Like these things:
That’s the best of 6th edition in a nutshell for me, and that’s not even all of the best ones. In short, Nagash could probably have looked better if sculpted in 6th edition style.
Just a handful of honourable mentions from other editions would be the 7th edition Cold One Knights’ mounts, pretty much any old Dwarf model, the 4th edition Chaos Dwarf characters, the 7th edition Empire archers kit, the 8th edition Terradon Riders and the 3rd ed. ass cannon. The current plastic clampack characters are particularly nice.
Which edition(s) are the golden one(s) for WHFB miniatures in your eyes?
I think my opinions pretty much correlate with yours Admiral.
I think the reason that 6th ed miniatures may feel supirior to 8th ed even though the latter are more detailed is that 6th ed may have struck a better balance between simple elegance and details. If 9th ed minis were sculpted with the 6th balance and the 8th ed level of refinement they could nudge out 6th ed for Golden Edition of minis. It’s a case of just because they can cram lots of fiddle details into the sculpts these days doesn’t neccessarily mean they should.
I think it’s something people tend to forget - miniatures are supposed to be seen from a distance, (such as on a tabletop) not right up in your face; they’re supposed to be held at arms length to simulate a person at a distance of 50-100 paces away and at that distance you can’t see every little detail. Plus, an overload of detail can be daunting to beginners/those less experienced at painting (not that there are many of those these days with current prices
By far the best edition for mini’s was in the very early 2000’s (also known as 6th edition). I loved all the metal models many of which Admiral has already listed. Some of the others I liked included the metal savage orcs, metal tzeentch horrors, questing/grail knights, dark elf witch elves, executioners, black guard and many many more. Way too many to list an extensive list.
Another important factor is a model being suggestive. For me the best is 4th edition, the first plastic kits etc. I like my models looking like boardgame pieces. Action posing should belong to conversions imho. I like stale models standing diagonally. Its just my taste I guess.
On a side note, what do people think are the Golden Ages for 40k and LotR and do they overlap with your idea of Fantasy's Golden Age?
Dînadan
Lotr seemed much more of a coherent run up until the new Hobbit releases. Having the Perry twins as sculptors of most of the models probably explains a great deal. But for Lotr I think the Rohan range, GW's own Dwarf range and GW's own Haradrim, Khand and Easterling ranges have some of the best miniatures ever produced by Games Workshop. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, on the face of it. Most of the Lotr models are just great.
Lotr/Hobbit really deserved wider appeal amongst the veteran hobbyists, just like it deserved to be 28mm and thus more compatible for conversions with WHFB, despite realism-heroic differences. This is one for the book of grudges! ;)
As for 40k I actually prefer Rogue Trader in many ways, even though I was newborn when it was released. That's why I'm converting RT-style Squats as a kill-team for my brother. Along with Rogue Trader, 3rd and 4th editions seem to be really good ones to me, but the styles of 40k miniatures also seem less sensitive to trends than WHFB ones do.
I recognize good styles from, say, late 3rd edition 40k being carried over to today's miniatures, and overall the evolution of 40k have been much more coherent and continous in style than WHFB. Some of the best 40k models to my mind come from today, and then I don't even have White Dwarf worth the money to be accustomed to them nowadays!
So perhaps 1st and 6th editions 40k?
Another important factor is a model being suggestive. For me the best is 4th edition, the first plastic kits etc. I like my models looking like boardgame pieces. Action posing should belong to conversions imho. I like stale models standing diagonally. Its just my taste I guess.
MadHatter
Good point, I'm sure you're not alone in this regard. Judging by the initial results of the Warseer poll, 5th seems to be a favourite of many.
Agreed with your LotR sentiments Admiral, especially as LotR was what drew me into the Hobby; it’s a shame it saw such hostility/snobbishness/etc from some existing GWers. Haven’t been following it recently, but what I have seen I generally haven’t liked, although I think that’s largely down to Peter Jackson’s designs rather than bad minis (and have only seen the first Hobbit film).
On the topic of LotR-WH compatibility, for what it’s worth, the RotK Witch King actually has a larger helmet than 6th ed Archaon as is, so just imagine how much more ridiculously oversized it would have been in 28mm scale!
Golden edition 4th and honourable mention for 6th/7th/8th for some of the plastic kits & Characters
One exception from 4th ed would be the wood elves - I much preferred the 3rd ed ones - Mike McVeys Wood Elf Army - The 4 horse chariot they made for this 3rd ed wood elf range still has to be one of my favourite models. If I had enough time and money I’d collect this 3rd ed army again from scratch.
The thing about the 4th ed range was it was such a huge leap in quality in terms of cohesiveness and ranked up minis. 3rd ed seemed to have super individuality and characterfullness, 4th edition was more consistent and the ranks & units and armies as a whole gelled better for it and looked incredible on the battlefield. Also the painting style changed a lot more and evolved as the studio grew in popularity, the whole production value increased and photos were showcased well and battle reports in WD were great , stores were popping up EVERYWHERE like 1 or 2 a month, it was just an all round golden time that dragged it into the mainstream.
The high elf army with Tyrion riding Stormwing, the beautiful Silver Helms and Dragon Prince sculpts, and the Undead with Screaming Skull Catapults, an awesome Zombie Dragon, Mummies, Dieter Helsnicht on Manticore and the O & G army with the Stone Trolls, Doom Divers, Rock Lobber and Shaman on Wyvern & the Beautiful characterful Dwarf army - After that 3rd/4th Edition Dwarf army I’ve never seen another edition with models I liked except maybe for the slayers. The original Longbeards, Iron Breakers and Hammerers were all so much nicer and I still prefer them to this day. The Empire Knightly Orders and Elector Counts were awesome too.
The only new stuff I have really truly liked from 5th Ed onwards are things like the huge dragon kit for the High Elves, Azhag and some of the other O&G heros / Lords, some of the Chaos stuff such as the plastic Warriors and characters, the new dragon ogres are nice the whole skaven range is great esp some of the war machines, and pretty much all of the monstrous Infantry kits were a good idea… but the dwarfs got pretty ruined for me and the undead got totally ruined. Some of the new w/elf stuff is good looking too. I think there has been more throw away stuff than good stuff though. The current edition VC Zombies for example are pretty terrible, all their hands and heads are too big. And the current plastic goblin wolfriders and wolves are no better , probably worse than the 4th/5th edition metal ones
The only big centrepiece thingy I like from 8th ed is the VC one with the ghosts and Necromancer on it - The Mortis Engine, that thing is badass
the rest are pretty errrr, especially the H.Elf Pheonix thing and the Empire Griffon which looks like a giant Chicken with a Lion coming out of its ass! Not my cup of tea =(
The thread is currently a 6th edition celebration, let's have some diverging opinions now, eh? ;)
Admiral
Aww, shoot. Because I was kinda going to agree too. A lot of 6th for me was a golden age. Of course the best of 5th was still around then.
Later editions have their charm too, but I'd mostly take pieces out of them I think.
On a side note, what do people think are the Golden Ages for 40k and LotR and do they overlap with your idea of Fantasy's Golden Age?
Dînadan
Lotr seemed much more of a coherent run up until the new Hobbit releases.
Admiral
Actually I think it's hardly appropriate to compare LotR to the other games. It was basically around for about 1 edition of WHFB. With a much tighter design team and everything. So it's not surprising it's coherent.
For 40k it's probably 3rd ed, but I am willing to concede that's maybe nostalgia and such speaking mostly. It's the one I started with and "knew".
All in all I mostly prefer the 3rd edition => what a surprise!
This has to do with nostalgica, I began to collect miniatures in 1986 (I presume) and I still love the unexcitedly style of the models. There was also a huge variety of models especially concerning dwarfs and greenskins and in addition the sculptors had humor! I have also the feeling that during this period the sculptors checked out there boundaries and made not so political correct models and background => like the AssCannon or the old Fimir with their disturbing fluff.
The character miniatures are not the best at this period (3rd edition), there the later editions (6th - 8th) which had much cooler and better sculpted one.
Don’t see the point in 9th ed option, I can’t vote again later or change vote.
Entry: Early 5th edition.
I started collecting warhammer 40k in the edition with spacemarines and space ork / gretchen in the core box. I was a kid. I was primarily as toys, playing with them. My dad painted some of the miniatures and build some cool terrain.
I played my first game of Warhammer right after the 5th edition came out. I played lizardmen, my mates played high elves and orcs. They are a few year older and got into warhammer in the earlier edition.
Favourite edition: 8th edition (6th ed. is my second).
I’ve started playing a lot of warhammer during the late period of 8th edition. Skills and concentration having entirely new standards. I can remember the rules, play with many different opponents, and are deeper in the hobby than ever before.
I was out most of 7th edition, only played very few games. And during 6th edition it was mostly collecting, assembling and playing. With 8th edition the I’m into all aspects of the hobby (except competitive tournaments). The worst about 8th edition is the “everybody has to get something extremely large” and “prices are insane” things. Glad dwarfs turned out to be an exception to the first rule.
Golden edition(s) of WHFB miniatures: 6th edition. (3rd ed. is my second).
I love the 6th edition miniatures. They have a realism to then that is really great. There came some great plastic kits in this edition and the metal miniatures had a lot of life. I collected Empire and those large blocks of core was beautiful.
I haven’t even looked at 3rd ed. miniatures before ending up here at CDO. Must be an age thing or the romantic image of better days. I love the game mechanic in 8th edition - it’s a great board game. But I don’t like the whole industry/company thing. Before I felt like part of a GW family, somehow part of a tight group. Now I see GW as a faceless corporation - that just happen to sell the rules for my board game.
The 3rd edition miniatures has so much soul, naming all miniatures, some beautiful work there. I really enjoy them now - despite the lack of realism.
I really don’t like the general direction of the miniatures during 8th edition. A lot of the miniatures look cartoonish. The minotaurs being the best example. Also the insanely large kits and weird unit types. The steam tank has always been the epitome of imperial engineering. Now they have those ridiculously large wizard machines. And where did they funny flying high elf chariots and demi gryphs come from? Never before mentioned in the fluff. And don’t get me started on the gyro bomber. With that thing and an alliance with the Empires industry - those races should be wining against the orcs. Air superiority being the thing that makes and breaks the tide of war.
Don’t see the point in 9th ed option, I can’t vote again later or change vote.
Bloodbeard
It’s for the future, in case this thread gets revived during 9th edition and some newcomers or veterans who didn’t vote this time around wants to vote for 9th edition. After all, 8th edition has almost ploughed through all army books, so 9th could arrive at any time now.
I agree with everything Bloodbeard has written. The old white dwarfs tied the community together… Then the humor being traded in for realism, like ripping out the soul of the races. Its the result of fans becoming developers and okayed by a lead-designer who’s driven by capitalists pushing for results rather than by a passion for the game. So, fact is they should use the community more, they could trade GW merch like caps or poster rewards for great articles etc.
Also they’re rewriting fluff instead of expanding, whats up with that? They got a 30 year legacy! They’re messing up…
