Xander:
As you know, hosting a website costs money. This is money I gladly pay! However, looking at all the activity makes me wonder what kind of Ad revenue we could generate for the site if we decided to do so. So I want to start a discussion about the inclusion of Advertisements on the site.
Just so we are clear, this is a non-profit site. I wouldn’t aim to make any money through this. Straight up, the cost of running the site is about 135 dollars per year. Any money earned beyond this would most likely be kept to pay for the next year, etc, or optionally some kind of fund used for promotion of CDO, be it t-shirts or prizes, etc.
So in your reply please state whether you could support using advertisements on the site, and also I want to talk about the different types of ads available.
Pop-Ups are out of the question, I would never ever use pop-up ads. Also out are ridiculous banner ads for random garbage, like smilies or SHOOT THE DUCK TO WIN flash banners. The two options to consider would be sponsorship and Google Ads.
Sponsorship would be like, I contact a place like TheWarStore.com and ask if they want banners on our site, or other places like Gale Force Nine, etc. Google Ads, I think we have all seen and know what to expect.
So I would appreciate your thoughts and input. It might be an easy way to generate some revenue to help make CDO even better. I mean since I put up the public Hit Counter about 3 weeks ago we already have more than 100,000 page views recorded. :o
So please discuss what your thoughts on Ads are, as well as what kind of ads you wouldn’t mind on the site. All other discussions on this topic are welcome including what you would think a CDO Fund could be used for. 
Discuss!
Please read this entire thread before replying. Many people are misinterpreting it, or coming to the wrong conclusions about the aim of this thread.
Thanks,
~Xander
minty:
any hoby add is good, afterall, it helps us find stuff for hobbying, and with me now trying to scult a whole army a lank to a place where I can get cheap expoxy resin, regular resin and other good would be apreciated
perhaps you could invest the cash on… hmmmmmmm, well, finishing your army and updating the blog may be an idea (hint hint;))
on a more serious note, I haven’t got a clue, as I don’t know what it could be used for
Hammerhand:
How about selling CDO themed Tee shirts/polo shirts at a slight mark-up?
Another idea could be to set up a ‘store’ area where hobby materials and tools can be sold, also at a slight mark up. People are always asking where to get sculpting tools, mould making silicon, casting resin, green stuff, brown stuff, basing kits (seige shaker bits!!) etc. Why not buy them from this very site! and that warm fuzzy feeling from the knowledge that we’ve just helped our favourite Chaos Dwarf themed Website get even better! These options would need some dedication though, and a volunteer to run with it might be hard to find.
I don’t mind advertising (as long as it doesn’t take over the whole site:sick). I think your ideas for what to do with any ‘extra’ income are sound. Although, before any realistic ideas are banded about, a projection of anticipated figures would be needed. No point asking for expensive GH prizes if the funds will just about cover a ‘pin badge’ and a ‘tin cup’ if you know what I mean!!:o
You should also make a ‘Pay Pal’ donation account up, so that people who want to and have the money can contribute to the cost of the site. It’s not fair really that you should foot the bill for our enjoyment xander. I know I would contribute, I think this site ROCKS!:cheers
Willmark:
You know where I stand on this. Google ads maybe though I’m against even that if truth be told.
If anything let’s look into paypal donations. If everyone chipped in $5 US it would be more then enough.
Xander:
any hoby add is good, afterall, it helps us find stuff for hobbying, and with me now trying to scult a whole army a lank to a place where I can get cheap expoxy resin, regular resin and other good would be apreciated
perhaps you could invest the cash on.............. hmmmmmmm, well, finishing your army and updating the blog may be an idea (hint hint;))
on a more serious note, I haven't got a clue, as I don't know what it could be used for
minty
I agree that all those supplies are something worth buying. Which is why having some ads to helpful products would be cool.
How about selling CDO themed Tee shirts/polo shirts at a slight mark-up?
Hammerhand
Not a bad idea, though I would have to find a place to have them made, then the whole (C) thing coems into play. Plus, initial investment could be large.
Another idea could be to set up a 'store' area where hobby materials and tools can be sold, also at a slight mark up. People are always asking where to get sculpting tools, mould making silicon, casting resin, green stuff, brown stuff, basing kits (seige shaker bits!!) etc. Why not buy them from this very site! and that warm fuzzy feeling from the knowledge that we've just helped our favourite Chaos Dwarf themed Website get even better! These options would need some dedication though, and a volunteer to run with it might be hard to find.
Hammerhand
I have fiddled with this idea myself. Start up costs for this would also be a lot, and prohibitive. Buying at retail prices then re-selling doesn't seem like a good plan. It seems like it would be challenging to convince places that I was a store... :P Good idea though, we should think this out more.
I don't mind advertising (as long as it doesn't take over the whole site:sick). I think your ideas for what to do with any 'extra' income are sound. Although, before any realistic ideas are banded about, a projection of anticipated figures would be needed. No point asking for expensive GH prizes if the funds will just about cover a 'pin badge' and a 'tin cup' if you know what I mean!!:o
Hammerhand
If revenue was ever accrued, I would most likely keep all the figures public so as not to hide anything.
You should also make a 'Pay Pal' donation account up, so that people who want to and have the money can contribute to the cost of the site. It's not fair really that you should foot the bill for our enjoyment xander. I know I would contribute, I think this site ROCKS!:cheers
Hammerhand
Well, I pay happily, as I know Willmark would also pay. But it's kind of a shame not to capitalize on the success of the website if we can have it paying for itself. And a little spare money would help invest in making the site better.
Thanks for the comments guys!
torn:
how about a system like the miniatures page uses. relevant small business could pay you are small yearly fee to have an ad. as long as they are relevant i dont see the problem, in fact its quite good to see an advert for a obscure miniatures company and then check them out.
the bloodbowl site NAF used to have a membership system where you paid a $5 yearly fee and got a membership pack out of it, including a set of custom blocking dice. maybe a (definitely optional) membership pack where you got something and the rest of the costs went to the site would be good.
in fact id be quite happy to donate the green of my marauder mage or make a new one and you could cast that and give it away as part of a deal.
still that is all cutting in to your free time, so adverts is probably the easiest way.
Grish:
The other thing is the amount of time. I mean, when it comes down to it, $135 for some people is a couple hours of work. No big deal. The real cost is the hours and hours dumped into this site. Granted it’s a great site, but to make it self-sustaining when you get busy in a year or two, you’d need a way of facilitating it.
I think relevant google Ads done properly could be very good.
I would recommend against doing a whole store idea unless you’re willing to potentially make it a full time job. Also, where would the store be based? What is the costs associated? Why would people buy at CAD prices and have it shipped then just buy locally?
Ads can be easy, and unobtrusive. Targetted to the WH members, I think it’s quite a good way of doing business.
Another idea would be to have online gambling/slave fights. People could make their slaves fight, outfit them, choose attack options. We could set up a betting site on the side. Kinda like chicken fighting, but without chickens.
AGPO:
Nice idea Torn but the shipping to most of the world would cost more than the membership package raised. A special edition CDO miniature would be a possibility though.
I’d be more than willing to contribute a few pounds a year to keep the site Ad free.The only type of advertising I’d want would be for related small businesses like Avatars of War which were just as much about directing member’s attention to cool stuff we thinkthey’d be interested in as advertising. I don’t mean greenstuff and hobby tools which most people can find. Personally I think that apart from this kind of thing ALL advertising detracts from a website
Grish:
I’d look at maybe contacting small businesses for arrangements. I know I’ve seen plenty of miniatures I’d love to buy but cannot. Perhaps if they had more visability it would help their business (and possibly some stores near here could get them in)? $5/yr membership or some cheap advertising would help. We could even have portions of the ad that select a random (out of a set list) miniature to display.
I have no problems with text, unobtrusive ads. They’re not in your face. Perhaps an option with users would be to pay for a donation to disable it for their user account if they didn’t want to see them?
Khan!:
I’m not too excited by the idea of advertising. Banners for hobby webstores would probably be alright, although I’m definitely against google ads. I agree with AGPO that advertising takes away from a website.
Things like shirts and paraphenalia might be interesting, were they tasteful and minimalist - ie no giant, flame-belching great tauri locked in mortal combat with elfish dragons against a lightning-torn sky on my t-shirts please.
Ishkur Cinderhat:
I’m much more in favour of the donation system that Willmark mentioned. With hundreds of members, generating the money needed to keep us going would seem no problem at all. I’d really prefer if CDO would stay an ad-free zone.
Grish:
If you do go with Ads, you could have the option to be Ad-free with a donation. Unless you don’t like the concept itself and not the actual ads.
Obsidian:
Kinda new here but I’d say go for it!
As long as they are hobby related ads, why not?
I could also donate a converted mini to sell on E-bay to get some money in for example.
GRNDL:
I would suggest something small-ish and pro-hobby, something like an online store. There are lots of businesses out there looking for exposure and having a “web page” sponsorship might be the sort of thing they’re looking for. It seems to work for “Turn Signals On a Land Raider”, IMHO.
I’d rather support someone like Hasslefree, Heresy or a similar online store if it meant helping out peeps on the site with a line to decent hobby supplies. I think its a win-win for everyone.
I’m not versed in business matters, though, so all that rigarmarole might make things hard.
Sojourn:
I like the idea of the hobby store kinda thing… why not offer some sort of “trading post” set up? where you can sell second hand tools you may not need anymore, or maybe people would commission someone for an army or unit or character to be sculpted/painted/etc/etc. shrugs
I also agree that a paypal donation account could be set up over ads/banners. It makes it cleaner and then those who really do enjoy the site will want to contribute towards it. having a $5 annual fee may deter people from joining, especially younger people who may not have a paypal account/credit card. I doubt they’d mail Xander money. So in order to allow for open membership, for now I’d say no to a $5 fee.
Xander, you know I could always help with finances… I gotta put my accounting knowledge to use somewhere. lol.
cornixt:
We were looking into CD dice at one point. If we could get enough pre-orders in for something like that (money up front!) then order a batch and a portion goes to the site. maybe commision an original figure.
I’m not against the ads, although they would have to be miniature related. Ad-free for a fee seems like a good idea if it is possible.
Grish:
I don’t see canadian online stores succeeding in this market. It is much cheaper to buy from US. You would be subject to some rules but looking into it might not hurt.
Anything going towards a store gets messy, and I don’t think would turn a profit. It wouldn’t be cheaper, people could get the same stuff somewhere else for less from what I’ve seen. Essentially you’d be importing in things from the UK to ship back to people all over the world. Doesn’t make sense. Unless you were going for Canadians only, then it might be OK.
Xander:
I appreciate all the feedback thus far. I have never liked Ads very much myself, but what I am looking at now is the high level of activity on the site, and I know that could be used to help us, so I am trying to figure out how. Small wargaming sites like Hasslefree, Heresy, Avatars of War, etc, seemed like the best alternative. Perhaps I could program something that simply allowed you to disable the Ads for yourself if you want, but that doesn’t require any money.
Donations are great, but I would never want a subscription style Ad blocking ala IGN.
Stores and such are very tricky, because it’s basically taking on a second job, you’d need warehousing space and time to distribute, etc. The idea of a promotional Miniature is pretty neat, but again, time and costs for distribution are a factor.
T-Shirts are an idea, but again, space, time, distribution, money down, are all a factor. T-Shirts would almost be best left to the individual, we should find some really good online stores, and just have images that everyone can use personally (something we should get on!)
So my new question to you is, assuming you don’t want Ads of any kind, how would you take advantage (for the benefit of CDO) of the large number of pageviews the site is receiving?
AGPO:
How about a gold membership? A one-off fee of say $5-10 and we could commision soe special tutorials/artwork and the like kept in a seperate section of the forum. Just a thought
Willmark:
Good question Xander. While driving traffic to affliates is good the real question is how can we benefit. I’m of the mindset that raising the exposure of Chaos Dwarfs in general is our primary goal (its in the mission statement after all) 
As discussed the website hosting fees are not excessive. So rather then revenue lets brain storm ideas on how to get us out to a wider audience.
The question is how we can broach an even wider audience. Helping bordertown burning should be the first step to that end.
