aki:
i could do some artwork to, but only black/white ones
gIL^:
i dont get why, your making an ultimatly pointless book, why dont you try what i tried and failed, using all the same rules in the pdf but clarify them, for example we have enough unit selection why dont you just make the pdf spread out and get rid of all questions harboring chaos dwarf’s,
for example we have loads of units:
lord’s
Chaos Dwarf Lord
sorcerer Lord
Bull Centaur lord
Heroes
Chaos Dwarf hero
Sorcerer
Bull Centaur Hero
Hobgoblin Hero
Core
Chaos Dwarf Warriors
Blunderbusses
Hobgoblins
Hobgoblin Wolf Boys
Special
Bolt thrower
Death Rocket
Black Orcs
Orcs
Orc Archers
Goblins
Sneaky Gitz
Rare
Bull Centaurs
Earthshaker
and just add a few DOW to fatten it out
ogre’s and lead belchers in rare for fluff’s sake
keep the rules the same but make a nice fat book for the new players, in the end this will Benefit more people and ultimatly attract more players. right now we have more units than half of the armies that are currently out, lets keep it that way,
use diagrams from 4th edition book for example blunderbuss, and earth shaker etc, get the rules from 7th ed orc and goblin book and ogre kingdoms, use the fluff that has been created by you guys, have a 10 page masterclass and show the best on this site and a guide to convert bfsp, no point making a half assed book, lets go for it and make hashut proud by sticking to the rules.
i would help for that book because everyone will be able to use it and ultimatly gain more players and if it sticks to the pdf there would be a chance this may be picked up by gw, trust me.
and to keep everyone happy dedicate a few pages at a back for custom units such as hell cannon immortals etc and maybe chaos dwarf magic but only apon opponents agreement
Dux Ducis:
So what’s happening here? Is this still going ahead? Over at Warseer there is a thread where heaps of people are gathering, brainstorming and discussing new unit types and ideas for a 7th edition incarnation of Chaos Dwarfs.
Adurell:
Ok ppl i se that you tried to do sth or at least told you wanted. I have some ideas about how ChD could look like. Here are some ideas
- Blunderbusses should be changed.I think that it has S3 all the time but instead it doesnt hit on 4+ all the time, but on 4+ if there is only one rank of blunderbussers and +1 for every full rank, up to 2+ for three ranks.Otherwise, everything is as it was.
Units:
Characters: As they were.
Core:
- warriors and hobgoblins. Hobbos count as core choice, but there must be less or equal of their units to the ChD warrior units
- a slavemaster. Sth to boost hobgoblin units morale and efectivity(with the gelp of a whip). Also, he is sth like a weak char, with 2A, and does not count as a core choice:hat
furrie:
it would be cool to see a hobgoblin lord 
Adurell:
nope, no hobbos rise to such a high power. As for now, im writing sth like an army list for newChD. Mabe it wont be perfect, but it can be changed. Also, id like to get any unit to write fluff about it.:hat
Hobgoblyn:
nope, no hobbos rise to such a high power. As for now, im writing sth like an army list for newChD. Mabe it wont be perfect, but it can be changed. Also, id like to get any unit to write fluff about it.:hatHobgoblins most certainly rise to such power...
Adurell
Just not within Chaos Dwarf armies. :idea
But.. Mogglah Khan is just a random rebel from the Hobgoblin hordes and he is a Hobgoblin Lord. The actual Hobgobala Khan and his generals are certain to be even stronger.
minty:
this project sorta died, if you wanna restart it theres a subfoum on here somehwere
zorn sabretooth:
i’m willing to playtest
Willmark:
What this project needs is a leader… IF what your are talking about is redesigning the armybook or just fixing the holes is the current list…
minty:
it was a new book, but all intrest seemed to flee from it
and when TFB left, halfof the leaderness left too
I’m willing to try and restart it though
Willmark:
Gil’ suggestion is actually the correct one IMHO. Grimstone did some phenominal work on his version and there is nothing wrong with that.
That being said it diverges away from what chaos dwarfs are right now… At least in our semi legal list form…
Clarfication of the rules fixing the stuff that is broken and bringing it to 7th is a worthy goal.
Fridericus_Rex:
Is there any blank space for a young hobbiest like me? I’d like to work with you…
Willmark:
I’m not saying that I should be the one to take this over. All too often people say they will do something; then realize the time and effort required and then it dies a death of neglect. In order to pull this off someone would have to be über dedicated to the task and have laser focus on this.
In short whoever undertakes this has to be a dictator or nothing gets done. It hasn’t for almost a year that the various ideas for a book have been floating around I. Equally varied threads.
I’m also not convinced on what this would entail as grabbing large swathes from the 4th edition book is probably Verboten…
Grimstonefire:
Vaguely off topic, but it would be nice at some point for us to collate together all the ‘completed’ fanlists in once place that we can find. Asking permission of course, or providing links to where they are if the people have long since gone.
We could load them up somewhere here I’m sure.
From my own experience of working on CD fanlists, some good advice:
First and foremost decide whether this will simply be a faithful update of the RH list, OR something completely new. We all have our opinions, but I firmly believe the two will never meet again (old and new), RH is a thing of the past. So establish this first, and make it clear to everyone. It will determine a lot of things later on.
Second (as Willmark said) you need to be VERY motivated to get things done. Unless you can collaborate with people who’ve already done a lot of work you will be looking at 6-8 months of work minimum. Being motivated isn’t enough in itself though, you need to listen to the advice of others, but be able to push through decisions when people don’t agree.
Thirdly do things in this order; Fluff first, then rules, then conversions/ concept art. Sort out the fundamental fluff questions behind your list first (e.g. ‘why do the CD go to war, what do they need to help them in this?’, ‘how does the whole DZ society function?’, 'what are the overall story arcs driving them forwards as a race (past, present and future)?).
Be prepared to scrap or add units after playtesting, but make sure you keep to your fluff foundations all the time. It will make a stronger list at the end. Give everything a purpose for being in the list fluffwise, not just because you happen to need it (probably excluding the core units), it adds a huge amount of character.
Fourthly decide on the provisional list of entries in your fan list before asking people to help complete it. Trying to get a consensus on which unit entries to include will kill the project from the start. Do just enough rules to be able get advice on whether the list of entries is balanced in principle before doing any serious work.
Fifth keep up the pace on making decisions. If your project takes longer than 8 months it will most likely never be finished (with group help anyway).
I could do loads more pointers, but those are the main ones.
Willmark:
Of course “design by commitee” us asking for trouble regardless. I have firsthand experience with this.
Taking a different tack on Grim’s point is this. Is this project going to have a chance?
- if playing with gamers who are “mature” you’ve got a shot.
- you’ll never be able to take it to a tournament GW or otherwise.
- adding a boatload of new units? Look at point one again…
So there you have it. Even Grim and I disagree on this on some points. See below in fact a great deal of this would be designed with writing out the rules first then the fluff.
UPDATE: What I have been thinking that might work is this:
Split the Chaos Dwarf Army list into three parts… The first part would be the revised PDF list, cleaned up and brought into 7th edition. this list would form the basis.
The second part would be the rules for all of the models that came before. The Whirlwind, the Tenderizer, the Jugger etc… this would satisfy those of the old school persuasion. In some cases it simply requires bringing the specs from the 3rd edition Warhammer Armies Book up to 7th, we wouldn’t need to re invent the wheel here.
The third part would be the modern take ala the Gav influenced more daemonic type… Insert your Kollosus here.
By doing this it makes a common framework and combined a lot of the disparate ideas.
Now here is the trick: how to make all those work together. The great thing is that Parts II and III are I think more of an easier thing to do. Many have written excellent rules that would go into those parts, it would simply be a case of codifying them into a tome (or two), much like Grim is suggesting.
The trick is to resist the temptation on Part I and redo everything under the sun.
I’ve got some ideas as to how this might work; let me kick it around a bit more before I fully lay out the intentions.
Theory_Man:
The time consuming part of new rules is the play testing. Theorical predictions and “Mathhammer” are fine to a point, but it takes alot of play testing with different people to get a sense on how good the new rules are.
@ Willmark
Are we legally allowed to copy the PDF into something else?
If we follow your suggestion with the three parts could (and will it be easier) to have three separate (but working loosely together) leaders?
@ everyone
We should come up with a clear objective (or set of objectives) before starting this project.
Willmark:
@ WillmarkProbably a gray area of IP law... Fair use and all not withstanding...
Are we legally allowed to copy the PDF into something else?
Theory_Man
Here are some great threads that have the most promise from this sub forum...
This identifies the main issues of the list quite nicely:
https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/5514
Obviously someone else was thinking some of the same things I just thought up over a year ago:
https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/5506
Some great ideas from Cornixt here:
https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/5649
Some well thought out rules, (though some room for improvement here from Wallacer)
https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/5862
Some OK rules here but need a lot of work:
https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/5624
Pyro�?Ts Rules for the 3rd edition bazuka
https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/6368
Pyro�?Ts rules for the Whirlwind and Tenderizer
https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/6370
Thommy�?Ts excellent Zhatan
https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/6438
Thommy�?Ts well thought out Astragoth
https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/5499
Thommy�?Ts well thought out Gorduz Backstabber
https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/5499
Thommy�?Ts rules for Immortals
https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/7343
Interesting idea from Grim:
https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/7343
Grim�?Ts Smoke Mortar
https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/7663
Ubertechie:
I would be happy to take the lead on this ( i have plenty of time on my hands) and have loved Chaos dwarfs since their initial release.
I think that the doing it in parts idea is great and is also the most realistic for getting anything official.
Part 1 tidying up of RH list (rules clarifications and points alterations hobogoblins up a point, bull centaurs up to 24 , bolt throwers up to 35 each, hob gob fast cav min unit size to 5 - these bring things inline with other armies)
Part 2 a guide on how to make all of the troops in part 1 - Ideally from current GW miniatures - this could b the way to get around - No Models no Rules concept - see skaven mutated monsters or zombie pirates as examples. This would also include the best painted examples of these conversions, big hats and marauders
This means that parts 1 and 2 could be handed as a fait acomplit to GW for then to add fluff (or we can) to then use white dwarf / their site (although i realize they probably wont use it - its a great guide for new and old players alike and when printed out and handed to your opponent {i do this with the current list as people arent always familiar with our list} is a great intro to CD
Part 3 - new units / rules for old units - think this should be done unit by unit - old stuff first (tenderizer / whirlwind, Bazooka, mortar) - ideally with conversions - note hellcannon could go in here. Then the new units to create an experimental list.
I can dedicate time, project management skills and a server to this plus i can perform plenty of playtesting as i have a cool gaming group that are always up for new things (we have a player that frequently uses a doomwheel in his skaven army).
I realise i am relatively new to the forums but have been paying since 2nd Edition so i am not the whipper snapper some of you may take me for
Cheers
Bryan AKA Uberrtechie
Canix:
Sounds a great idea to do in this manner and although i am not able to devote much time i can playtest with mates and give feedback .My hobby time windows have to be devoted to painting as i am nearing completion of lots of units at once:D
It will definately need a driving force behind it whipcracks and a team of devoted followers slaves us?:hashut