[Archive] Warhammer Armies: Chaos Dwarfs

Willmark:

Agreed the rules should be driven by the models, not by the fluff. However some basic assumptions have to be answered since our rules are so nebulous.

- What are hobgoblins? Slaves or mercenaries?

- Which versions of hobgoblins are we to use? The sneaky cowards of our list or the quasi-mongols of the DoW?

- Blunderbusses, clean up.

- Further clarify the minimal rewrite thread, as this speaks most to addressing the issues.

- If the goals is to just clean up then we have to stay faithful to the army book That means by way of example that hobgob wolf boyz can drop in unit size to 5 to keep them in lines with say the O&G armybook, but they don’t get spears, they didn’t hav teh ability back in 4th, why now?

There are many more, these are just examples.

Best place to start in my honest opinion is the rules of the PDF and break that down even further. The only army book we have ever had is just that a collection of articles… So my proposal is to use that as a guide for book 1. Take the blunderbuss. It works great, but there are some issue with it that need to be addressed. i.e when shooting at creatures with multi wounds etc… TH rules to correct this can be found here. Take all that get the rules together, play test it to make sure it works then mark that off. Assemble some photos have a small bit of fluff and bang (pun intended), the first part is done. It could even bee done in a PDF by itself to start. As time goes by we add to the PDF as sections get completed.

Lastly as far as project lead (and don’t take the personally) something of this magnitude needs a few levels and at the very top needs to be one of the admins or mods to really keep the Dev Team on task and review goals and timelines. Not saying this to be a hard ass either. Its simply that too many of these projects stagger on like zombies due to lack of focus. Here is a prime example:

http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/showth...3#pid38563

https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/7899

We are now nearing the completion of the first issue and have the second’s outline started… Only happened because someone took a major “a-hole” approach to it! This has to happen here of a even higher order of magnitude and for an even more sustained period of time…

So even before this starts goals need to be lain out, time lines determined, and the project team of the Core dedicated individuals assigned from a rules perspective. And I mean dedicated! Fluff can come at a latter point.

Ubertechie:

Okay well i can run the project plan (its what i do as a living :slight_smile: ), chase people, collate, hassle, cajoule, bribe, intimidate as necessary this can be done using a online project management tool i use so everyone can see the status of everything at any time, then i think we need a few dedicated people for each element. I can work with you on a plan - whereby we hit the major questions first then spiral out from them. I strongly believe that for it to be worthwhile though it needs to be primarily a modernization and clarification rather than a re-write so for example blunderbusses do not need a re-write just some clarifications (good diagrams) and as you say a tweak for multi-wound creatures (d3, or 1 wound per blunderbuss rank or whatever works best).

Let me know

Cheers

Bryan

Willmark:

Are you familiar with the Direwolf FAQs? Another place to gather information from.

Timeline and deadline. There needs to be a high level timeline for this. My proposal is November 1st of 2008 for a deadline for all three sections…

Specing out the list is to be added first. The problem areas have already been identified and each unit needs to be reviewed as a starting point. Special rules need to be spelled out and clarfied.

So to start:

- let’s list out the sections in an outline form (chapters in essence).

- list out each unit

- list problems, gray areas of each unit (if any)

- define which parts are to be included in the book from the O&G book. Its rediculous for GW to expect that a CD player is going to buy that book for a few statlines.

- list the rules for animosity.

- the armory section should spell out the issues with blunderbuss and its corrections.



Do you have the 4th edition book?

Canix and Minty help so noted and will be called on as needed.

-

minty:

right, so this project is back up?:slight_smile:

right, will clear the clutter from the subforum

Willmark:

Looks like it. PM ubertechie to get you into the project management solution…

Grimstonefire:

Just to clarify willmark, what you are proposing is more of an updated ‘tome of information’, rather than 1 single list?

I.e.

Section 1:  Bringing RH into 7th ed (unchanged in terms of unit composition).

Section 2:  Bringing all old units/ warmachines into 7th ed.  

Section 3:  Choosing a varied selection of new things and including rules.

However, together all 3 parts do not make a balanced list.   This would be made totally clear from the start.  It would be more of a book of rules people can use rather than a single balanced list?

I think that would achieve a LOT overall compared to us all trying to agree on a single balanced list.  So it could work as aside from section 3 (which things to include), there’s not that much that can be disagreed on!

The fluff issue wouldn’t have to be a problem, we could just not use any!!  Seriously, this part would be a controversial element, so to make it easier and quicker we could just have rules.

Incidently, I’d like to update the 3 current special characters (zhatan, gorduz, astrogoth), and bring in 3 more.  These would be evenly split into lord and hero level, to match the new style of armybook entries.

From mid june onwards I’d be happy to be involved in this.

Fridericus_Rex:

Well, If you’re doing something like a new ‘list’ for CDs I also would like to interfere. I am young (ehm… right) but i have got a lot experience.

Maybe I also can write some rules for the new AL (=army list). But I think the leaders of this project should be an old, wise and an awe-inspiring geriatric (like Willmark, Grim, minty or ubertechie).

I like the idea to separate the AB. Well, maybe this will be the big time for this forum… maybe…

Willmark:


Just to clarify willmark, what you are proposing is more of an updated 'tome of information', rather than 1 single list?

I.e.
Section 1:  Bringing RH into 7th ed (unchanged in terms of unit composition).
Section 2:  Bringing all old units/ warmachines into 7th ed.  
Section 3:  Choosing a varied selection of new things and including rules.

However, together all 3 parts do not make a balanced list.   This would be made totally clear from the start.  It would be more of a book of rules people can use rather than a single balanced list?


Grimstonefire
Correct.

Parts 2 and 3 are most likely going to be the case of being either special or rare. I really don't see any units that might come up being Core. Could happen, crossbows anyone?

To sum up I think we should put together a cleaned up of the list. The secondary parts are ones that are good for swapping out a unit here and there for games amongst the friends.

Ubertechie:

Also i think it is important that for the RH to 7th ED we write no new rules and only clarify what exists -we also need to log what we have changed (if anything) and our reasons for doing so. Further doing the 1st step well is a good way to gain credibility for anything in steps 2 and 3

Anyway of to sleep some more (recovering form a stag weekend … )

Cheers

Ubertechie

Willmark:

Agreed. If any thing it needs to adhere exactly to the RH list.

My example of crossbows would be one of the few things that would be Core (by way of example). Only other would be Immortals off the top of my head, a upgrade to warriors in the vein of Longbeards with dwarfs.

So if we use this (by way of another example) hobgob wolf boyz DO NOT get spears despite the logical sense for them to have them. They didn’t have them in the 4th ed list nor in RH list so its out.

- To Minty, Canix, et al

PM Ubertechie. he will get you checked in to teh software we are using to manage this and assignments will be handed out.

Grim- I think you would be an excellent candidate to head up the Special Characters section. I would say partner with Thommy (if he wants to) as there are excellent starts already done with 3 characters already. Rykarth should be in there to round out the 4 “official” Special Characters. Any others should be in Volume 2 or 3.

Another brainstorm session is a master list of all unit types over the varying lists and a master list of all models assigned to the Chaos Dwarf range over teh years. Whether or not they had rules. If they had rules then so much the better. Anyone want to head that up.

Basically my role in this (at least right now) is to help get this rolling and help Ubertechie get it off the ground. My other role will be to kick @ss where needed if someone slacks off.

furrie:

https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/8023, there is a cool idea for deamons of hashut, you might whant to look at it if you want to add deamons to the list

Grimstonefire:

So for the moment we stick to ‘Volume 1’ (the RH update), and all work on that?  That would mean the most number of people working on one thing, rather than a couple of people working on everything.

Agreed on keeping it strict to RH, just updating rather than creating, we save that for volumes 2 and 3.

Willmark:

For those who have missed it contact Ubertechie to sign up for this project, only those serious need apply.

Willmark:

PDF. For the blundies is available for play testing. Sign up with ubertechie for being a playtester & getting feedback to him sob this section can be closed out.

From there it will be onto the next section.

Willmark:

Any updates on this?

furrie:

is the project running or is it stopped

Willmark:

I don’t know Ubertechie was going to head this up hence my question as to where it is at.

lologrelol:

Hi, I’ve been playing warhammer for a while and am greatly inspired by the games’ theme. I’d love to help work on the art project. I’m having trouble entering the pictures. It seems I have to create a link to post them, why can’t copy and paste them into my reply? Please help, I’d like you guys to see my work if this project is still running.

Willmark:

load them to photobucket.com and post the link. Or send the link to me and I can show you how it works.

Servius:

I see the project is still up??? or is it?? Any who if some people may or may not remember I was pretty active with it for a while… but found that people were too worried about adding stuff before updating the list as willmark stated… if ubertechie is still on the job cool beans. I would love to help out with compiling the book and getting it ready for circulation.

If not, I would love to take a crack at it. While this may not be directly related to my job. I will have alot of free time to coordinate the effort and get some playtesting in. I have quite a bit of experience with rules writing. as I was a writer and tester for mongoose publishing for ACTA, Battlefield Evo, and Victory at Sea. I have also written and tested an araby list for warhammer which GW later used loosely to write the Warmaster Araby (too bad they lost the snake pots on the Carpets LOL).

Like I said I will have some time on my hand and would love to help out again.