Thommy H:
The stuff he took from my book is from the 7th Edition version too - he has references to Unit Strength in there still! And, weirdly, the “Reference” section is just a scan of the 7th Edition rulebook references at the back… I don’t want my name on something like this! This is exactly the sort of thing I’m worried about happening! And then he has the audacity to say in the credits at the end that he made this because he’s frustrated at the lack of units in the books he’s stolen content from and that his atrociously formatted compilation is how it “should” be done.
If anyone wants to know why I’m so angry all the time, this is why! The world is full of complete morons.
M4cR1II3n:
Hey guys, as the person who wrote/edited the Hobgoblin book I just wanted to clear a few things up:
- Yes, I should have asked for permission, since a lot of the material I used as a basis could be found on this site, and for that, I’m sorry. In normal cases getting in touch with the authors is often near-impossible, and as such, asking for permission for every little thing is often fruitless. Heck, I once asked for permission to use some material for the Cathay book and it took me 6 months to even get a reply! With the Kingdoms of Ind I never got a reply at all! I always try to include the original authors name in the credits though.
- The reason it might say “written by” in the credits is because I’ve used that template since I wrote the Araby book, where I actually wrote most of the material myself. I’ve started changing that to “written/edited by” instead, as it varies from list to list how much I do myself. The Chaos Dwarf book will say “compiled and edited by” even, as I am not going to write much of the material myself. However, the rules and army list are always my ideas, though I might borrow some things from other books.
- Although I am a member here, I never post or even lurk. I have no idea of which members might be easy to get in touch with. However, this appears to be an active site, and as such, I do plan on asking for permission to use any work seen here in the future.
- If there is anyone whose material has appeared in the book who has not been credited (like Skink, unless I got his real name in there?), please let me know. I have included Nicodemus name (and updated Thomas Hunt to Heasman-Hunt) in the recent update.
- Please note that I am not, and have never been, trying to take credit for material written by someone else. I simply want to give the option for people to have complete army books for the various unsupported factions, and if I find suitable material spread out across the internet, why not use that to make something cohesive? I see no reason to sit and rewrite everything myself, if there is already great material out there that just needs a good home. At the same time, I can hardly write "by M4cR1II3n, based on the works of “insert 20 different names* and also his own material” on the front page. I have simply been mimicking the GW layout which has one name (namely the person who worked on this particular edition of the book) on the second page and then include the name of everyone else of the credits page. In the case of Nippon or the Fimir for instance, I have also written when I have posted about it that a lot of the material is taken from L5R and Warpstone Magazine, and not written by me.
I personally have no problem if anyone wants to borrow material written by me, as long as it is not used for profit. I don’t even need you ask for permission, but a link to the finished work and a small mention in the credits would be nice.
That said, ThommyH, if you feel angry about people using your material because they like it, imagine my reaction when I found out that someone had been chopping apart nothing less than 6(!) of my army books, never told me about it, used my covers making the books look identical at first glance, credited my name wrong 3 times (as Elias Matheson, Mathias Eriksson and Elias Matthiason), and publicly stated on his website that my books were poorly balanced and “out of whack”. The same guy also had chaos warhounds priced at 12 pts each, T3, 4+ save cavalry at 50 pts each, BS3 archers at 20 pts each, high elf bolt throwers with extra crew at 50 pts, heavy chariots at 50 pts each, and allowed Kislev to both use normal magic spells as well as 6th ed Tomb Kings magic at the same time…
cornixt:
Sounds like you are more of an editor than a writer, might be best to credit yourself in that way if the majority of your book is compiled from other sources. You still get your name on there, but it looks less like you are trying to get credit for the material.
Thommy H:
Hi M4cR1II3n,
First, I should explain that when you read some of my replies in this thread - specifically the ones about you - you should bear in mind that they were written in the heat of the moment and were intended to be irreverent comments between friends. This is still a small and fairly informal forum, and I don’t always think of what I’m writing in my posts here as being “broadcast”. In other words, with a bit of distance, I regret being quite so disparaging and unpleasant about someone who has been perfectly polite and reasonable about such an inconsequential thing.
Secondly, I should explain that the reason I’m so protective over my work is that over the last month or two I’ve been receiving some very kind comments from people about my writing - not just my Chaos Dwarf book, but some of the other projects I’ve worked on, to the extent that I’m attacking my dream of becoming a professional writer with renewed fervour. The Chaos Dwarf book will always be just a hobby, but I put my full name on it for a reason - because I’m proud of it and I think it’s a fair reflection of my abilities. There may come a time when people who don’t know anything about Warhammer have cause to google my name and, when they do, I would prefer to have a certain amount of control over what it’s attached to. If my ambition was to be an actor or something, and the writing was always going to be a sideline, there’d be no problem, but as it is, I hope you can understand the issue!
That said, ThommyH, if you feel angry about people using your material because they like it, imagine my reaction when I found out that someone had been chopping apart nothing less than 6(!) of my army books, never told me about it, used my covers making the books look identical at first glance, credited my name wrong 3 times (as Elias Matheson, Mathias Eriksson and Elias Matthiason), and publicly stated on his website that my books were poorly balanced and “out of whack”. The same guy also had chaos warhounds priced at 12 pts each, T3, 4+ save cavalry at 50 pts each, BS3 archers at 20 pts each, high elf bolt throwers with extra crew at 50 pts, heavy chariots at 50 pts each, and allowed Kislev to both use normal magic spells as well as 6th ed Tomb Kings magic at the same time…
Which is the sort of thing I’m worried about! I never thought your books were anything like that, but it’s not a million miles away from what happened with Belseraph who’s work I didn’t consider to be up to my standards.
M4cR1II3n:
Sounds like you are more of an editor than a writer, might be best to credit yourself in that way if the majority of your book is compiled from other sources. You still get your name on there, but it looks less like you are trying to get credit for the material.
cornixt
Like I said, it varies from book to book. In some of them I've written a lot of it myself, whereas in others, the main background has been from WFRP, and I've only had to write the rules myself. I suppose I could clear up the "source material" so that it more clearly states that a lot of the material has been lifted from other sources, as well as mentioning it on the second page.
Hi M4cR1II3n,
First, I should explain that when you read some of my replies in this thread - specifically the ones about you - you should bear in mind that they were written in the heat of the moment and were intended to be irreverent comments between friends. This is still a small and fairly informal forum, and I don't always think of what I'm writing in my posts here as being "broadcast". In other words, with a bit of distance, I regret being quite so disparaging and unpleasant about someone who has been perfectly polite and reasonable about such an inconsequential thing.
Secondly, I should explain that the reason I'm so protective over my work is that over the last month or two I've been receiving some very kind comments from people about my writing - not just my Chaos Dwarf book, but some of the other projects I've worked on, to the extent that I'm attacking my dream of becoming a professional writer with renewed fervour. The Chaos Dwarf book will always be just a hobby, but I put my full name on it for a reason - because I'm proud of it and I think it's a fair reflection of my abilities. There may come a time when people who don't know anything about Warhammer have cause to google my name and, when they do, I would prefer to have a certain amount of control over what it's attached to. If my ambition was to be an actor or something, and the writing was always going to be a sideline, there'd be no problem, but as it is, I hope you can understand the issue!That said, ThommyH, if you feel angry about people using your material because they like it, imagine my reaction when I found out that someone had been chopping apart nothing less than 6(!) of my army books, never told me about it, used my covers making the books look identical at first glance, credited my name wrong 3 times (as Elias Matheson, Mathias Eriksson and Elias Matthiason), and publicly stated on his website that my books were poorly balanced and "out of whack". The same guy also had chaos warhounds priced at 12 pts each, T3, 4+ save cavalry at 50 pts each, BS3 archers at 20 pts each, high elf bolt throwers with extra crew at 50 pts, heavy chariots at 50 pts each, and allowed Kislev to both use normal magic spells as well as 6th ed Tomb Kings magic at the same time...
Which is the sort of thing I'm worried about! I never thought your books were anything like that, but it's not a million miles away from what happened with Belseraph who's work I didn't consider to be up to my standards.
Thommy H
No worries, I completely understand, which I why I felt that I should fill in with my point of view on it. I should have been more considerate in doing this, but after mostly using material that is several years old without being able to get in touch with the original authors, it has sort of became a force of habit to pick material and just give credit!
I also understand why you would want to be protective about your work, especially if you hope for your work to be taken seriously as a professional writer, whereas I am only doing this for fun and the good of the hobby. I'm just more of the "sharing is caring" type of guy when it comes to non-profit material :)
In any case, it should not affect the quality of the Chaos Dwarf book. As I said, there was just so much material to go through that I wanted to have a clue about what I actually was intending to use before asking permission for it all. It would be a bit weird if I asked a bunch of people if I could use their material only to end up not using any of it due to space constraints!
That said, I'm glad we can avoid yelling and act like mature people about this, and I'll make sure to be more careful about using peoples material and the way the credits section is done in the future :)
Willmark:
Now this is how this issues should be resolved. Kudos.
MartyF:
Now this is how this issues should be resolved. Kudos.
Willmark
Very impressive from both posters, I've gained a little bit of faith back in the internet. :cheers
Thommy H:
I’ll try to tweet some really offensive things tonight to balance it out.
snowblizz:
I'll try to tweet some really offensive things tonight to balance it out.
Thommy H
Don't worry. I'm sure 4chan and Frothers already has that covered by a mile or so.
Just between you posting and my reply even if I know my internets.
:D:D:D
Kera foehunter:
< Sad >
What ever happen !! when men had a problem they settle it like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AphxyjrH4SE
these are sad time we live in
Kera foehunter:
< Sad >
What ever happen !! when men had a problem they settle it like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AphxyjrH4SE
these are sad time we live in