Godbob and his jolly rogers:
Under rules of master Willmark I’ll keep it short
I like Obama 
Grimstonefire:
I am curious to see what changes he’s going to make. Selling ‘change’ is easy enough, but he will have to deliver during a really hard economic climate.
As I don’t really know that much about their specific policy differences I wasn’t too bothered who won.
Has Obama even said what changes he will make?
zorn sabretooth:
The question is will dick cheney go back to the 9th circle?
And what’ll happen to poor ol’ Dubya?
Swissdictator:
The question is will dick cheney go back to the 9th circle?Now, let's be polite about things... I am through all this, I ask others to do the same for my side.
zorn sabretooth
If you want to debate, AIM me using the same screen name I use here. ;)
two_heads_talking:
Has Obama even said what changes he will make?He has mentioned a few things.. it would probably be best if you check out his website and do some research yourself. I'll save you my biased opinion of his proposed changes.. Needless to say, if it ends up being like Clinton's process, I will be moving to Canada..
Grimstonefire
cornixt:
I predict a female president in the next 12 years. I’m seriously expecting a media fight between Clinton and Palin for the next election before Palin crashes and burns for the final time. McCain was the man to vote for in 2000, since then he has changed his principles so much that Obama was the only real choice left. It was like "If you can’t beat Bush then become him. Oh wait, now everyone hates Bush…"
Tough times are ahead, so it won’t be easy for Obama. Better that the economy collapse happened this year rather than next, or he would have been blamed before he’d done a thing. Still, when you start with nothing (or a $10 trillion debt) it can’t get much worse.
Sojourn:
He has mentioned a few things.. it would probably be best if you check out his website and do some research yourself. I'll save you my biased opinion of his proposed changes.. Needless to say, if it ends up being like Clinton's process, I will be moving to Canada..cool. look up your fellow Canadian CDO members when you do! :)
two_heads_talking
two_heads_talking:
If I make it up there, I certainly will.He has mentioned a few things.. it would probably be best if you check out his website and do some research yourself. I'll save you my biased opinion of his proposed changes.. Needless to say, if it ends up being like Clinton's process, I will be moving to Canada..cool. look up your fellow Canadian CDO members when you do! :)
two_heads_talking
Sojourn
I predict a female president in the next 12 years. I'm seriously expecting a media fight between Clinton and Palin for the next election before Palin crashes and burns for the final time. McCain was the man to vote for in 2000, since then he has changed his principles so much that Obama was the only real choice left. It was like "If you can't beat Bush then become him. Oh wait, now everyone hates Bush..."He could have gotten what bush inherited.. A big mess with the Middle East.. Again, I'll save my stining retorts for my old military buddies, but I can say one thing, no one in the military respected Bill Clinton, especially after he cut so much of our military forces.. The ones who lost jobs of course are the most pissed off.. lol
Tough times are ahead, so it won't be easy for Obama. Better that the economy collapse happened this year rather than next, or he would have been blamed before he'd done a thing. Still, when you start with nothing (or a $10 trillion debt) it can't get much worse.
cornixt
Willmark:
I predict a female president in the next 12 years. I'm seriously expecting a media fight between Clinton and Palin for the next election before Palin crashes and burns for the final time. McCain was the man to vote for in 2000, since then he has changed his principles so much that Obama was the only real choice left. It was like "If you can't beat Bush then become him. Oh wait, now everyone hates Bush..."Assuming Hillary doesn't make a run in 2012 to unseat a sitting President from her own party in the primaries the first she will be able to run is 2016 and she will be 69... No way that is happening. If she runs in 2012 she commits political suicide, her time is done, this was her one shot.
cornixt
cornixt:
He could have gotten what bush inherited.. A big mess with the Middle East..And what we have now is what? The middle east has been a mess for a long time, and poking Iraq with a blunt stick was strategically a stupid move, especially with Afghanistan still being dealt with. A sharp stick in the right place at the right time would have saved all this.
two_heads_talking
Again, I'll save my stining retorts for my old military buddies, but I can say one thing, no one in the military respected Bill Clinton, especially after he cut so much of our military forces.. The ones who lost jobs of course are the most pissed off.. lolObama seems to have most of the top military guys on his side for now, but then again there is more to running a country than defense. The Republicans are always the first to complain about the government employing more people than they need to, but I can't see any military cut backs in the short term.
Kera foehunter:
cornix great views !! it time for a change the people voted it
shure thing are going be tough but at least this is a man that remebers good time !!
he remeber hard work !! it has alway been hard to do the right thing!!!
so this is going to be my last post on this topic!!
it all yours
Willmark:
What annoyed me most about this campaign (and there were lots of things) was the attempt to paint McCain as Bush’s third term when the democrats screamed bloody murder when it happened to Gore in 2000 whom I voted for then. If you know or have read anything about John McCain’s life you would know he is so far apart from Bush’s world it’s not even funny. I defy anyone to read Faith of My Fathers and tell me he is George Bush.
The son and grandson of two admirals endured more in his life then probably the lot of us combined, I’m not saying that qualifies him to be president on that alone. I will point out is does a discredit and a disservice to a man who has earned the words hero and patriot. When he could have chosen early release he didn’t, when they found out who he was they TORTURED him harder.
I was on another forum and I heard someone making fun of the fact that he can’t raise his arms or it looked funny. Anyone know why that is? Because when he ejected from his plane in 1967 over Vietnam he fractured both arms and a leg and was not given medical care. Later 2 years of solitary confinement. His injuries in teh service of his country made it sos he could no longer raise his arms above his shoulders, and that is to be the subject of ridicule?
Regards of his politics that alone demands respect, he has earned it far beyond what any of us will ever know.
The Flying Beaver:
i lost money on thisHey, at least the sex scandals comitted by democrats are of the legal-age, heterosexual type.
frankly, I think Bill Clinton should be given a 3rd term for being such a good source of comedy material
zorn sabretooth
Obama is the first black president, which is pretty damn cool. This is probably the last time I'll say something nice about Obama. Bush has royally screwed up the country. Obama has a lot of work to do and even more potential to screw it up. Obama hasn't exactly promised radical change in Iraq and his health care plans are only an incremental improvement. Not to mention the opposition screaming SOCIALIST!!1 at virtually everything he does. He still has to work with the self-interested congress. Most democratic congressmen are still conservatives, and many of them also helped Bush slam his legislation through. The media is also stupid, yammering on about 'post-racial' america. Yeah, right.
Same-Sex mariage was banned in 2 states, and same-sex adoptions in another. Saxby Chambliss won. Michele Bachmann won. The election was divisive and the ignorance and hatred of many american voters will be going strong for many years to come. An Obama victory won't suddenly change these people.
Get over yourselves, guys. Obama was the better choice by far, but be prepared to hold his feet to the fire. It's not going to be an easy ride.
Swissdictator:
The Flying Beaver: The video you linked to is not how conservatives are. They’re a very small minority. Just like how the nutjobs on the left are a minority also. I’m dealing with one who’s trying to make my life miserable right now.
I’m very conservative and I told many people that Obama has won and deserves my respect, and I’m giving him a chance. He has earned that least that much. Most of my friends who voted for Obama would have done the same for McCain, with the exception of the kids in my Civil Liberties class. I’m also upset with McCain supporters that have said some nasty things after the election. I want this insanity to STOP. Intolerance and hatred exists on both sides, neither is exclusively tolerant nor intolerant… as in the end they’re humans and imperfect.
Understand, I’m not being critical of you… just critical of some of the rhetoric on both sides. I’ve started using leftist/rightist separately from liberal/conservative… the former being the ones that divide us, the later being the ones who just have differing opinions if that makes sense.
Edit: On the plus side, there are some things that will be done under Obama that I do like. So I’m not upset over his victory, I’ll just see different things I wanted done. So yay for that I suppose. The Democrats have the ball in their court, let’s see what they do.
Father Grumpmas:
As an overseas chappie I am pleased by Obama’s win and the Democrat victory.
But I still have a lot of time for McCain and the way he conducted himself during the whole election - he is a man with a lot of mana and dignity and was in a hard position given the Bush backlash.
Here in New Zealand we have a general election in a couple of days - it has almost been overshadowed by the US one. I have to decide which flavour of wet liberal I’m going to vote for 
We are going to miss Sarah Palin on our nightly news 
Willmark:
So fringe, nut job Christians speak for everyone of the Republican party? So in that mindset fringe nut job ultra liberals speak for the democrats? Extremism on either end of the spectrum is just as bad. Extremism from either party does not impress me.
An Obama victory won't suddenly change these people.
The Flying Beaver
What I hope is Obama is a centrist with all that entails and ignores the extreme elements of both parties.
Get over yourselves, guys. Obama was the better choice by far, but be prepared to hold his feet to the fire. It's not going to be an easy ride.Your opinion, and one that you are entitled to, and one that not everyone has to share despite that statement. Interesting on how you can presume to tell others what to think...
The Flying Beaver
For the record I largely vote democratic in local and state races. I am not registered with any party. I believe both major parties are lame and have a strong disdain for both. If I had to join a party I'd join the Libertarians but unfortunately Ron Paul or Bob Barr had no shot.
Baggronor:
I’m all for Obama personally, though I’m not that in touch with American politics. McCain was a little old I feel, choosing Palin may also have been a mistake. Although she did provide quite some entertainment :cheers
But hey, at least you guys got to VOTE for your leader cough Gordon Brown cough.
two_heads_talking:
I am Morgan Kelly and I approve this message. I can tell you lots more about his torture, as when we went through interrogation schools, SEER course and a few other courses geared to the proper ways to counter interrogation and the proper methods of interrogation, Senator McClain's methods and experiences are used quite a bit.
What annoyed me most about this campaign (and there were lots of things) was the attempt to paint McCain as Bush's third term when the democrats screamed bloody murder when it happened to Gore in 2000 whom I voted for then. If you know or have read anything about John McCain's life you would know he is so far apart from Bush's world it's not even funny. I defy anyone to read Faith of My Fathers and tell me he is George Bush.
The son and grandson of two admirals endured more in his life then probably the lot of us combined, I'm not saying that qualifies him to be president on that alone. I will point out is does a discredit and a disservice to a man who has earned the words hero and patriot. When he could have chosen early release he didn't, when they found out who he was they TORTURED him harder.
I was on another forum and I heard someone making fun of the fact that he can't raise his arms or it looked funny. Anyone know why that is? Because when he ejected from his plane in 1967 over Vietnam he fractured both arms and a leg and was not given medical care. Later 2 years of solitary confinement. His injuries in teh service of his country made it sos he could no longer raise his arms above his shoulders, and that is to be the subject of ridicule?
Regards of his politics that alone demands respect, he has earned it far beyond what any of us will ever know.
Willmark
Khan!:
@ The Flying Beaver: I’m impressed that you chose an al-Jazeera broadcast to make your point. Interesting choice! I started reading al-Jazeera’s internet news last year during a poli-sci course, and now it and BBC tend to be what I look at for international news. Some folk I talk to about al-Jazeera are really suspicious though.
@ swissdicator: You’re right I think about partisan politics and ideology - it doesn’t really help anything. Intelligent people can certainly disagree, and in their discourse reach a better synthesis of ideas than they had before.
I’m sincerely curious about the radical, extreme left-wingers you mention, however. One of the interesting things about U.S politics (for example) for me as a Canadian citizen is that the differences between Democrat/Republican are, compared to our parties, very small. What I noticed during this election was a lot of Republican supporters talking about Obama’s race, or spurious connection to terrorism, or assumptions that he is a Muslim (underlaid with more sinister assumptions that to be a Muslim is bad - an assumption that I vehemently reject) - or, more troubling perhaps, catcalls and shouted death threats during McCain’s speeches whenever the name Obama was mentioned.
I didn’t hear about anything similar in the Democratic camp in this election - it would be absurd to suggest, for example, that McCain is a white supremacist or fascist or what-have-you. Maybe there weren’t boos and catcalls about McCain at Democratic rallies because he didn’t come up in speeches, I don’t know - or maybe there were and we didn’t hear about them up here? At any rate, what I mean is: When you refer to extremist left-wingers, who presumably are as extreme as those individuals depicted in the video The Flying Beaver showed (but in reverse), who do you mean? I’m not trying to be critical or combative, I just want to be clear about our terms.
two_heads_talking:
I'm sincerely curious about the radical, extreme left-wingers you mention, however. One of the interesting things about U.S politics (for example) for me as a Canadian citizen is that the differences between Democrat/Republican are, compared to our parties, very small. What I noticed during this election was a lot of Republican supporters talking about Obama's race, or spurious connection to terrorism, or assumptions that he is a Muslim (underlaid with more sinister assumptions that to be a Muslim is bad - an assumption that I vehemently reject) - or, more troubling perhaps, catcalls and shouted death threats during McCain's speeches whenever the name Obama was mentioned.Perhaps you heard them or didn't hear them based on which media outlet was there.. Extremists, left or right of center are extremists due to their views.. for example an extremist conservative would say "no abortion for any reason" while an extrmist liberal would say" you can't tell me what to do with my body." The middle ground or right wing liberal/left wing conservative would say something about both.. perhaps, abortion shouldn't be used to terminate a pregnancy unless the life of the mother was in jeopardy or in the case of a rape or otherwise concerning situation.
I didn't hear about anything similar in the Democratic camp in this election - it would be absurd to suggest, for example, that McCain is a white supremacist or fascist or what-have-you. Maybe there weren't boos and catcalls about McCain at Democratic rallies because he didn't come up in speeches, I don't know - or maybe there were and we didn't hear about them up here? At any rate, what I mean is: When you refer to extremist left-wingers, who presumably are as extreme as those individuals depicted in the video The Flying Beaver showed (but in reverse), who do you mean? I'm not trying to be critical or combative, I just want to be clear about our terms.
Khan!
Regardless, we all stand in different places in teh political arena, no matter what party we back.. I've registered as an Independant now for 20 years.. In fact I've only once voted a straight party ticket and that was my first vote, when I was 18.
In essence, an extremist is someone who fanatically takes their party line in an extreme manner. White supremists are an extreme example of a Right Wing extremist. the black panther's would be an extreme example was well, but supposedly, they followed no party lines, just racial lines, so I suppose even White Supremists might even be outside party lines too. I'd say anyone who takes an issue up for discussion and becomes fanatical about it.. (I am right and you are wrong and you can't convince me otherwise) is an extremist.