cornixt:
I’ve only just had time to look at this, and I’ve not given it a very thorough look. If I hadn’t seen the Word document, I’d be convinced that you’d ‘hacked’ my pdf or something! 
Just realised I’ve looked at your first version rather than the most recent. Ho hum.
I’d recommend a small bestiary to explain some things, like the Taurus/Lammasu thing (which I think is a good idea) and base sizes for the non-obvious units.
I like the petrified sorcerer idea, and the dirges. The Daemonic Upgrades could do with a better name. Most of the newer army books have a lot of options like that, which I like.
A potential problem, and one that GW books often suffer from so it always comes up in an FAQ: “They count as hand weapons that endow the bearer with magical attacks.” So they aren’t handweapons then, or do they give the handweapon/shield bonus?
I think that “may be upgraded to a Winged Taurus” should just be replaced by “Winged Taurus” since you have it listed with a separate statline anyway. Calling the hero a “Tyrant” might be a problem because of the Ogre character.
I’m not really sure about the Bull Centaurs with 2 wounds. There isn’t anything I know much about with that (Pegasus Knights?). I’d probably play it safe and bump up the armour save to 2+ or 1+ with reference to having tough skin.
Did you want any of the errors pointed out, like grammar? I’ve spotted a few things like "The remove the Engine and its crew from play."
Overall, some interesting ideas in there. I’ll have to go back and have a proper look.
Baggronor:
There isn't anything I know much about with that
Flesh Hounds, Pegasus Knights, Bloodcrushers.
cornixt:
Yep, don’t know much about them, not read the Daemons book, don’t know anyone with Brets (it was a good guess though).
Thommy H:
I was just looking at the Hellfire pistol funnily enough, Baggronor. I like the multiple shots idea - let’s throw it in!
I’ve done a big revamp of the magic items now too, and they should be looking a lot better. I left out Black Orcs because I was pretty wary about including too much that pandered to players with older armies. There’s already Slaves and Wolf Riders and now a version of Bolt Throwers. I also think their mention in Knight of the Realm goes completely against their background, so I’d rather not include them on that basis. They can always count as Slaves or Immortals if you have a hankering to use the models.
A Daemonsmith Hero will be included as a special character instead of it being a normal choice. In past versions of a Chaos Dwarf army book that I’ve written there’s been a dichotomy between Daemonsmiths and Sorcerers, but I’ve kind of gotten bored with that idea now and I don’t think it fits what we know otherwise. Sorcerers bind Daemons too, so Daemonsmiths are just technically-minded members of the Sorcerer Caste now.
I’d recommend a small bestiary to explain some things, like the Taurus/Lammasu thing (which I think is a good idea) and base sizes for the non-obvious units.
cornixt
This will be forthcoming in Version 2. Right now, I just wanted to get the rules down so there wouldn’t be too many sacred cows to be slain when it comes to later in the process. If I need to ditch a whole unit, I’d rather not have to invest a lot of effort into writing fluff for them.
A potential problem, and one that GW books often suffer from so it always comes up in an FAQ: “They count as hand weapons that endow the bearer with magical attacks.” So they aren’t handweapons then, or do they give the handweapon/shield bonus?
cornixt
If they count as hand weapons then they…uh…count as hand weapons and all that that entails…
I think that “may be upgraded to a Winged Taurus” should just be replaced by “Winged Taurus” since you have it listed with a separate statline anyway.
cornixt
A bit of a story here: originally “Winged” was just another Daemonic Gift, but it was too expensive to fit in with the 50/100 point limit on gifts for mounts. Instead I just made it a separate option, but since both versions have the same limit on Daemonic Gifts, I didn’t want to repeat the “may have Daemonic Gifts worth up to…” for each of them. Does that make sense? I admit that it is slightly confusing though - it possibly looks like a Winged Taurus just costs 65 points (it’s actually 115!).
Did you want any of the errors pointed out, like grammar? I’ve spotted a few things like “The remove the Engine and its crew from play.”
cornixt
I’m constantly proof-reading to catch typos. It’s not necessary for you to correct anything you think could be worded better though. While I respect your writing ability, I do kind of know what I’m doing in that area and it would really just boil down to opinion on most things
Anyway, Version 1.3 is coming up in a short while…
Thommy H:
Version 1.3
Changes:
- Warlord and Tyrant now have the option to take a pistol or a brace of pistols, for those who like that sort of thing.
- Bodyguard is back in for Immortals, but now only applies when a Sorcerer or Sorcerer Lord is in the unit.
- Chaos Dwarf war machine crew now only have heavy armour. This was an idea I was toying with earlier in the design process. The idea is that only the Warrior Caste have access to Chaos armour. War machine crew are part of the Artisan Caste (below Warriors) so just get heavy armour. This is consistent with the Hellcannon in the WoC list, incidentally. Daemonsmiths are Sorcerer Caste, but they still get heavy armour to keep things simple.
- The Petrified Sorcerer now has Resolute and Relentless.
- Daemonflayer is gone because it sucked.
- Blood Drinker has been revamped and simplified.
- Hellfire Pistol has 2 x multiple shots.
- Obsidian Shield destroys a magic weapon if it makes a save. This makes it the armour equivalent of Obsidian Blade, and it’s priced accordingly.
- New magic item: Ogre Mail. Chaos armour that increases the wearer’s Strength.
- New magic item: Helm of Zhardukk. It’s a big hat.
- Gem of Barukh is now priced correctly.
- Daemon Stone is clarified.
- Daemonic Sceptre is now a bound spell and causes Panic rather than Fear.
- New magic item: Ark of Souls. It’s the Ark of the Covenant, to fit in with the idea of Chaos Dwarfs being culturally Semitic. I’m aware that Tomb Kings have a version of this concept too, but this is just a pale imitation. Is it too much overlap, do you think?
- Daemonic Phylactery now means the bearer can’t join units and no one can use his Leadership for anything. This seems a more characterful drawback to me.
- New magic item: Tablet of Laws. More Semitic influences at work. This is the basic “+1 to cast” item that loads of races have.
- Rod of Daemon Binding is gone because it had a very limited application. It will resurface in the hands of a special character, most likely.
- New magic item: Staff of Magma. Replicates the classic Magma Pool spell by allowing the bearer to cast Steed of Shadows as a bound spell.
- Daemonic Thrall now gives an additional power dice instead of an extra spell to avoid the “do you lose the spell if it escapes?” question.
- New magic item: Effigy of Hashut. This enhances the Fireball spell if the Sorcerer has it. I based it on a Wood Elf item that’s very similar, so the points cost should be fair.
- New magic item: Banner of Obeisance. This is just Banner of Slavery with a better name.
- New magic item: Banner of Zharr. Supposed to be the Immortals’ banner in fluff, but anyone can take it really. Nearby enemy units suffer a -1 Ld penalty. Servius, I wrote this one for you: give the Baneguard Black Plate and the standard this and watch the Immortals break units without so much as swinging an axe!
- Obsidian Banner has now had its points cost corrected.
- New Daemonic Gift: Sentient Ammuntion. Allows a re-roll of the Artillery dice.
Thommy H:
To head off any objections: I’m going to change Ogre Mail! I just realised this morning how broken it is! Strength 10 Heroes running around is not a good idea…
Baggronor:
Warlord and Tyrant now have the option to take a pistol or a brace of pistols, for those who like that sort of thing.
Wooohoo:)
Daemon Banner + Stormcallers = Magical Blunderbusses? Niiiiice.
Do the shots from Daemonic Engines count as magical?
If Blood Drinker is the same as the Tenderiser from OKs, should it not be 50pts?
I'm not sure if its wise to allow Skullhelm and Banner of Zharr to stack. -2 Ld is very painful...
Ogre Mail + Blood Drinker = Str 8 D3 wounds per hit :o Damn, thats really making sure they stay down.
The list is shaping up nicely overall I think :cheers
Thommy H:
Daemon Banner + Stormcallers = Magical Blunderbusses? Niiiiice.
Yep, that was intentional. Hence the little "this also extends to the unit's shooting attacks" like it's some afterthought!
Do the shots from Daemonic Engines count as magical?
No, I don't think so. Hellcannon shots aren't magical, and they follow that model's lead. I'll give this some thought.
If Blood Drinker is the same as the Tenderiser from OKs, should it not be 50pts?
I don't have the OK book, so I can't comment on that. In theory, D3 wounds costs 35 points, and a great weapon is worth 5ish, so I priced it at 40 (I think...). Off hand, it may cost more for Ogres because great weapons cost more (what with them have higher base Strength).
I'm not sure if its wise to allow Skullhelm and Banner of Zharr to stack. -2 Ld is very painful...
Yeah, they are a bit similar. I'll have to think about this combo.
Servius:
I think that the -2 is fine… really Daemons have a banner that does that and is only one item. and its only one model. And they have a lore that revolves around leadership… Really… I dont see the problem.
Blood Drinker is about right considering the model it is available to… A tyrant has 4 wounds and has a large base strength…
Thommy:
When is the Effigy’s Range Ability Rolled… At the beginning of the game, beginning of each magic Phase, or After each successful cast?
That’s the only thing im seeing missing… Personally I miss the anti-daemon items… i think they fit… they were just a bit pricy… When you look at the recent books like Highelves you have anti dwarf stuff… I really liked the Daemon Flayer… it was just a bit overcosted in my opinion i think at 45 points it would be awesome.
Heres the AB file as it stands… Simply extract the zip file’s contents into your Armybuilder data folder (normally C:\ArmyBuilder\Data) … Make sure you have the most up to date fantasy datafile for 2.2c. Also this file will NOT work with Army Builder 3. Only the previous 2.2c will work correctly. If you have any troubles PM me and I can help you out.
Thommy H:
Effigy is rolled each time the spell is cast. I originally envisioned it as adding a flat 6" to range (making it a 30" fireball) but this seemed a little powerful and, since you can use it multiple times with that item, you’d be zapping guys from the safety of your deployment zone in turn 1. The Wood Elf item it’s based on enhances a spell with random range, so I think this is fair for the same point cost. I’ll clarify when it’s rolled though.
Right now I’m working on the bestiary. Certain minor things are changing as I go. Right now, the big one is changing Tyrant to Despot. I think it’s Grim’s list that uses this nomenclature? Hopefully he doesn’t mind: it’s a good name! There’s also been a couple of other tweaks. Ogre Mail now adds D3 Strength, and only when the model wearing it charges (so it ties in with the Ogres’ bull charge in a small way) and I clarified that Hobgoblin Wolf Riders do indeed actually ride the giant wolves in their unit entry (no one caught that one…). The Skull Helm/Banner of Zharr combo has been addressed: Skull Helm now gives a WS penalty, a much less powerful ability which also brings about a reduction in cost, making it a good little option for a Champion that can take a magic item.
Servius, I’m not a huge fan of “only affects one army” abilities, even if they are showing up more frequently in modern army books. Daemonflayer is gone because I just didn’t think its secondary ability of negating Ward saves tied in enough with what it was supposed to do. It’s kind of lifted from 40K, where the Daemonhunters have weapons which ignore Invulnerable saves, supposedly because they’re anti-Daemon weapons, but I always thought that was pretty flimsy too. It’s likely that some of these things will reappear in the hands of a Daemonsmith special character who will also grant the ability to give a Greater Daemonic Engine more Gifts - this enhanced Engine will represent a certain machine you may have heard of called the Kolossus.
Servius:
cool… I was just saying it was a cool fluff idea on the fact that CD should be as far as the fluff a anti-daemon army. I also thought that the no ward save could be nasty on a character to take on vampires and the like… as their strength is decent and most vampires I see are sporting wards over low armour saves.
Thommy H:
Well, as I say, the precedent is there in 40K. Maybe it could be a magic weapon that just negates Ward saves? That would screw Daemons anyway.
Baggronor:
Maybe it could be a magic weapon that just negates Ward saves? That would screw Daemons anyway.
The fluff certainly works, and a ward save negating weapon is good all round :cheers Would be good against that freaking DE pendant, thats for sure.
Servius:
oh god yes… Stupid Dark Elf Schenigans.
Thommy H:
Okay, here we go then. Now we have the Bestiary added, and hopefully you’ll enjoy my spin on the Chaos Dwarfs. There have been some little tweaks along the way, and I’ve also added two new magic items: the Daemon Blade (negates Ward saves) and the Cursed Banner (unit counts as being behind a defended obstacle if they don’t move).
Still to come: special characters.
Enjoy!
Acerbus:
hey i have to say this is a great list, and i plan on using it alot, but one little thing about slaves, i was comparing them to marauders, and for 2 more points, you get 2 more WS, 1 more BS, 2 more I, and 1 more Ld. now i know being slaved they’re supposed to be weak from exhaustion, but it seems that thye just don’t compare to marauders. and i know it’s been said, but i think giving acolytes at least light armor would make them so much more appealing to take in an army. hobgoblin riders are the same price as marauder horsemen, with 1 less WS, 2 less I, and 1 less Ld.
also, dark mace of death is really good, but for one use only 100 points seems a bit pricy. just my take on it, but either way this is a great source for playing chaos dwarfs.
Thommy H:
At low points levels, it’s very difficult to scale different abilities. There are two points between Slaves and Marauders, yes, but there are only four different options for points cost at that level! They’ve either got to be 1 (too cheap), 3 (too expensive) or 4 (the same as Marauders) or 2 (what I’ve gone with).
One thing to remember: they only come in groups of at least ten models. An individual Slave may seem too expensive compared to an individual Marauder, but try comparing ten Slaves to ten Marauders - they’d be about half the cost, which is about right I think. When you look at troops, you really have to compare the cost of an entire unit, not individual models.
With Wolf Riders, bear in mind they start with light armour and their steeds are faster. That makes more difference than stats.
As for Acolytes - that’s something I’ve debated myself. My feeling is that they’re supposed to be mini-wizards, so they shouldn’t get armour (although Daemonsmiths do…). My vision of them has them wearing dark robes too, not armour. I’ll think about it some more.
Let me know how the list works out too. I haven’t had chance to playtest it myself yet, so I’d be interested to see how it functions in a game.
Grimstonefire:
They could wear beautiful robes… over heavy armour. ;) Nobody would ever be able to tell! Failing that a ward save tattoo thing.
Acerbus:
yeah i suppose units wise, 20 slaves vs 10 marauders does make a difference. and i didnt catch that the riders come with light armor, that makes em more worthwhile. and i agree with grimstonefire, a ward save would be characteristic of little somewhat wizards.
Thommy H:
I’d be wary of giving them a Ward save simply because it feels more like something that should be one of the Dirges. Light armour is a definite possibility though.
Just realised I’ve looked at your first version rather than the most recent. Ho hum.