and a hat lover refuses to accept that a majority of players dont want their army to look like "Stunto the Chaos Clown" from some saturday morning cartoon.
This is the weirdest thread I've ever seen. You say "hat lover" like it's a slur. Is there anything more than people bashing GW and treating a game of toy soldiers like it's Serious Business here?
Thommy H
How was i saying it like a slur? you even put in your profile that your a hat person. would you like me to say "your a great and talented person who enjoys chaos dwarfs with tall things on their heads?"
Your right it is a game of toy soldiers but its also a business, a very large business with many ties. Its fine if you want to look at it just as a game but its the business side that has the greatest effect on the game and its the business side we are discussing. If you dont want to talk about it as a business then dont participate in the discussion plain and simple. noone is asking you to post here. I want to see updates for my favorite armies and in order for that to happen you need to look at the game and the company from a business standpoint.
Well, they do still playtest, both internally and externally. I know, because I've playtested a few armies. I also know that all my input can be overturned and ignored easier than sneezing from pepper in your nose.
The Dark Eldar were supposed to be the ying to the Space Marines yang. And quite rightly, it was a comporable army, but not the way it was produced in the starter set. A well played Dark Eldar army at the time of 3rd edition would dominate a space marine army, but most Dark Eldar players couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag, again at the beginning of 3rd edition.
Oddly enough, I started working for GW just as 3rd 40k and 5th Edition fantasy were released. I've play tested most of the armies at least at a preliminary stage and some at an advanced stage.. Currently though, playtesting is mostly done in house, as many of the old playtesters out of house, were sneaking pdf files of the codex out to the public. So, the rest of us pay for the idiotic sneak peaks given out during prior playtest runs. So, blame the lack of playtesting out of house on the lack of moral fiber from the average gamer douchebag..
two_heads_talking
Well I've "Internet known" several people who I know to be play testers and GW's inability to take good advice or tendency to make last minute changes has been legendary. "Did they test this? At all?" is an old joke among us gamers after all.
What scares me most is the thought that they'd actually think it was a good idea to only do it in house. For my money I would not have said that the play testers are the main culprit in leaking pdf copies. I'll just say that until GW started printing in China pirated books were scanned or photographed from the printed ones. The newer electronic "copies" seem to be from production pdfs.
If anyone beleives that GW tests rules extensively or doesn’t do last minute additions I offer up “Intrigue at Court” for the High Elves in 6th Edition. One of the most lame ass, under thought out rules ever. And if the stories are true added very late, not tested and on a whim.
Ya sure a few people think they are cool but a few people think beating up homeless people is cool too. Im sure 90% of possible chaos dwarf players such as myself were turned off by the stupid appearance of the hats.
Forlorn, please be a little more considerate about other members. Thommy H and I often disagree, but some of what you've said is provocative. You have implied that those that like hats are similar to hobo-beaters, which I doubt is what you believe, but a better analogy could have been used. It's a far higher percentage than you seem to realise that like hats. That isn;t to say I expect to see them back, of course.
As for saying hat lovers refuse to accept this, I am horribly offended. I get the impression that I'm renowned for accepting other people dislike the big hats and have always tried to include masks and things in any ideology of Chaos Dwarfs presented, even though it's not my creed.
Also, he was participating in much the same way as everybody else.
Apologies, but I thought it best to curb this spat before it became a flame war or such.
Anyway, back on topic now: As has been said, this has been discussed everywhere, here many many times, for certain. No matter how much they annoy us, they do also provide the basis for all fo what is good with the game. Unfortunately, they seem to be making a lot of bad decisions (from both a personal and semi-analytical point of view) of late.
Ya sure a few people think they are cool but a few people think beating up homeless people is cool too. Im sure 90% of possible chaos dwarf players such as myself were turned off by the stupid appearance of the hats.
Forlorn, please be a little more considerate about other members. Thommy H and I often disagree, but some of what you've said is provocative. You have implied that those that like hats are similar to hobo-beaters, which I doubt is what you believe, but a better analogy could have been used. It's a far higher percentage than you seem to realise that like hats. That isn;t to say I expect to see them back, of course.
As for saying hat lovers refuse to accept this, I am horribly offended. I get the impression that I'm renowned for accepting other people dislike the big hats and have always tried to include masks and things in any ideology of Chaos Dwarfs presented, even though it's not my creed.
Also, he was participating in much the same way as everybody else.
Apologies, but I thought it best to curb this spat before it became a flame war or such.
Anyway, back on topic now: As has been said, this has been discussed everywhere, here many many times, for certain. No matter how much they annoy us, they do also provide the basis for all fo what is good with the game. Unfortunately, they seem to be making a lot of bad decisions (from both a personal and semi-analytical point of view) of late.
Hashut's Blessing
Sorry if i got a little too carried away it wasnt my intention to be so.
Hats are a touchstone type of topic, until CDs get rereleased they will continue to be.
We’ve all been there on one side of the fence or the the other, my dislike of hats is well known. However by the same token I’ve always said “make them how you want to”.
With all that said I do not budge from my petsonal stance on hats, their influence or their history. We’ll never know exactly why they weren’t popular… As many have pointed out could have been the hats, might not have been, perhaps the other imagery.
Sorry if i got a little too carried away it wasnt my intention to be so.
When someone challenges me i tend to go all out.
ForlornHope
Please to be remembering that a difference of opinion is not necessarily a challenge. I know the young ones tend to think so, but it's not always the case.
One of the great things about CDO is that we are like a gaming group around a table at a local store…just separated by a great distance and brought together by a love of a small quirky niche army. We don’t even tend to fight like brothers and sisters, even when our opinions may differ from each others…so don’t get too excited by “challenges”. Around here most of us are just coming from a different angle, or some of us playing devil’s advocate…like friends sitting around a table…
That aside, I can let you in on a couple of things…first, GW is finally going to be redoing Dark Eldar soon. Your codex is supposed to be slated for 2009 (in summer if the redone rumors are right…). the Dark eldar never sold well, and a lot of that was that they could be difficult to play…even while good players were winning GTs and Rogue Trader tournies with them…but a lot of average or good players could not win with them (or would not select their armies in a way they could use them effectively). This hurt sales even more than the sometimes bland models…
If the rumors are right and GW does the new Dark Eldar, they will probably get a full blown redo (much like the old Wood Elves), where the look and feel of the army will change slighty to a great deal (hopefully for the better), and the play may get a bit easier as well. But Phil Kelly and Alessio have both said at different times that they are going to be redone…
That said, when a mini line is 20-25 % of your company sales, you will always support and promote them…one of the reasons that Space Marines are ALWAYS one of the first codexes release with any new edition. After all, When Coke Zero and Diet Coke both came out, did Coca-Cola commercials disappear?
And as I’ve said in other threads…when GW does redo the Chaos Dwarfs…if they make really cool models, and put out some reasonable rules with a cool background, then the sales will take care of themselves…
Even if Masks and helms become the “official GW vision” of CDs, I doubt the Big Hat creed will disappear. There are a lot of new CD converts who love them. I’m living proof.
Well i don’t think it matter if we play hat or mask or something new ! The fact is that we get a army with a good set of rules! Most people here would convert the new stuff to make it more there style anyway !! I know i would !! i probly make them into tall hats lol
Sorry if i got a little too carried away it wasnt my intention to be so.
When someone challenges me i tend to go all out.
ForlornHope
Please to be remembering that a difference of opinion is not necessarily a challenge. I know the young ones tend to think so, but it's not always the case.
two_heads_talking
Yes it is!
:P
Your right we are one big family !! We do mosty act like brother and sister, but at least if we don't like what is said we get over it !! and like a faimly the girls are smarter and better looking
Kera foehunter
It must be because aunty Sojourn isn't here minding us so were becoming a bit wild. Well you are half right at least...
EDIT: I just learned to use the multi-quote function, woooo! I've been missing that function for a while now.
Even if Masks and helms become the "official GW vision" of CDs, I doubt the Big Hat creed will disappear. There are a lot of new CD converts who love them. I'm living proof.
GRNDL
True, but I'll be highly surprised if you see teh new ones with them, when and if they make their appearance.