They murder me in combat with high strength ASF and re-rolls, high initiative means Purple Sun isn’t so effective, 3+ save against shooting means my flame cannons and death-shriekers have a hard time.
Heres some tactica I’ve been working on for my army for when I finally play my first game of Whfb with my shiny new CDs… Its a defensive formation known as the Ziggurat Formation, I stole it from a Skaven general I saw a bat rep from on youtube. Turn one looks something like this
the chaos dwarfs can be anything really, blunderbusses, twin linked magma cannons, infernal guard with swords and shields etc you get the idea, nastier the better, and better if you can bunker a leader/character with them and a BsB for the hobgobs.
then when they get close assume the Zigurrat formation, soften them up with a thunderbolt of fireball or something from your Daemonsmith etc, if they are stupid enough to charge your hobgob redirectors hit em with flank charges
and if they try to send in a smaller unit/character just flee your Daemonsmith back to safety and take the charge with you CD’s and hit em in the flanks again with the hobbos. This should in general provide a very nasty headache for any oponent wishing to charge your juicy chaos dwarf unit with bsb or magma’s or blunderbusses. If you are really nasty then you could just fire blunderbusses or twin linked magma cannons into their flank if they are dumb enough to charge your hobbo tar pits.
The don’t gt any re-roll. Neither do swordmasters. Always strike first (elves) and always strikes last (great weapons) nullifies each other and those the strik based on initiative and don’t gt the re-roll. I don’t no the stats for Korhil.
But the right large unit of IG should be able to go toe-to-toe with them. A Castellan will make them stubborn. Thy will hit you on 3+, wounding on 2+ leaving you with a 6+,6++ save (we are keeping hw/s for low point cost). Now you hit him in return. You hit him on 4+, wound him on 3+ and he has no armour save, because we bring the Razor Standard. Or he has a 6+. So we should get some kills in. But we don’t want to go toe-to-toe against another stubborn unit.
I go lore of Hashut or lore of Metal against him. Hope for Flames of Azgorh or Final Transmutation instead of the Purple Sun. The Searing Doom is easy to get off and kill them on 5+. More importantely you’ll get either re-rolls in close combat (breath of hatred) nice for the above. Ash Storm for just keeping the unit locked down the entire game. Or from lore of metal get Enchanted Blade of Aiban (+1 to hit rolls and armour piercing working with shooting). Will give hobgoblins a better chance of killing them with their bows and in close combat will give the above block of IG a much better chance.
Yet - all this is choices. My actual and best advice for you my friend:
Hit him with a hellbound Iron Demon. First you’ll shoot him (preferable with Enchanted Blades of Aiban for better hit chance). Strength 6 and armor piercing will take away all his armor save. That’ll take out a bunch of them, getting between one and two rounds of shooting. Then you ram him with it. He’ll hit you on 3+, wound you on 6+ and you’ll still have a 6+ save. Being 60mm wide, he’ll only hit you with 5 models. If you still hit them with Ash Storm (they get -1 to hit the Iron Demon) or hit the train with Enchanted Blade of Aiban, the 3 crew attacks will hit on 3+, wound on 4+ and he’ll have no armor save.
Remember with the Iron Demon you don’t have to declare a charge, you can choose to just drive into him. This will take away your impact hits - but will take away his chance of a “flee reaction”.
Edit: see post below.Also Korhil will die turn 1 of combat. He has no wardsave, so you direct the Iron Demons thunderstomp attack against him. d6, strength 8 hits will turn him into a grubby pulp in a single turn.
Or you can spend the entire game redirecting him with khans. Angle him, so you’ll drive this regiment in a bad direction if he charges them. Otherwise he has to spend a lot of shooting killing the khan, and then the unit can’t move that round at least. Or combine khan and iron demon, for more rounds of shooting with it.
Hope this helps. My friend has started bringing Phoenix Guard, thinking them a better choice. Giving them a 3++ with a constant use of high magic spells. Those guys won’t die!
Also - Korhil will die turn 1 of combat. He has no wardsave, so you direct the Iron Demons thunderstomp attack against him. d6, strength 8 hits will turn him into a grubby pulp in a single turn.
Bloodbeard
You're not allowed to direct impact hits on a character. They're distributed as shooting on the unit itself.
You're not allowed to direct impact hits on a character. They're distributed as shooting on the unit itself.
JMR
In the rules I can't read that stomps are directed as shooting. Anyhow - with some digging I found out I'm wrong.
But the Tomb King player (a really experienced and good one) that told me how stomp works made a big mistake. Because it cost him his Tomb King when he learned that the stomps aren't flaming attacks coming from a destroyer.
FAQ Q: Do special rules that can inflict hits in close combat, such as Stomp and Breath Weapons, count as close combat attacks? (p42) A: No they count as an unusual attack and will be distributed as a shooting attack.
FAQ p. 7
The rulebook itself is vague in it's wording. I would still go the Iron Demon though.
Ah, I misread your post regarding Impact Hits and Thunderstomp. Glad my statement still counts though
Edit: Regarding the actual topic. White lions are great at killing high-value targets. The only thing they lack in, is amount of attacks, being only 1 per model. The attacks they do put out hit most of the time, wound most of the time and shred most armour. That means expensive, armoured up chaos dwarves are a great target… Which is something that you’ve already experienced. Saying it in a different way, it doesn’t really matter if they strike expensive cavalry / armoured up CD, or if they strike a naked hobgoblin. They die just as fast. Bottom line, you don’t want to get in combat with them, but if you do, you might as well put something inexpensive against them. When I play Empire, I like to face them with a large horde of state troops and then buff them up to actually deal back some damage as well. I don’t think LoA can really do this as well, but it’s something to consider; use hobgoblins and buff/debuff with magic. Still though, you probably do not want to face them in combat.
As with all elves, they’re relatively fragile vs. shooting. In the case of White Lions, you need some strength to get through the armour save however. That means I’d go for warmachine fire and possibly magic missiles if you can spare them. A dead-center hellcannon shot should hurt them aplenty. In the mean time, chaff them up with Khans or whatever you’d like to use and deal with them once they are thinned out a bit.
FAQ
Q: Do special rules that can inflict hits in close combat, such as
Stomp and Breath Weapons, count as close combat attacks? (p42)
A: No they count as an unusual attack and will be distributed
as a shooting attack.
FAQ p. 7
The rulebook itself is vague in it's wording. I would still go the Iron Demon though.
Bloodbeard
I might be retarded right now, but how is this vague? It states loud and clear, that Stomps and similar attacks in CC is allocated like shooting, though the don't count as such (I guess this is in regards to items such as Shield of Photlos and Cloak of Twillight)
Helm me understand how this FAQ can translate into pinpointing stomps vs characters in a unit.
I might be retarded right now, but how is this vague? It states loud and clear, that Stomps and similar attacks in CC is allocated like shooting, though the don't count as such (I guess this is in regards to items such as Shield of Photlos and Cloak of Twillight)
Helm me understand how this FAQ can translate into pinpointing stomps vs characters in a unit.
Malorndk
Be easy on yourself there Malorn. Take out your rulebook, read under "stomp" - could be read as if you can stomp somebody in base contact with the unit type "infantry"and nothing on "allocated as shooting" . The FAQ is a separate document - and as quoted it makes it pretty clear.
800 points!? Sweet bejesus. In that case, either focus on it completely and make sure you get those points, or ignore it completely and chaff it up to make sure he can’t use those 800 points.
Or deploy your own 800+ point unit of stubborn Infernal Guard or Hobgoblins. Funfun times…
Be easy on yourself there Malorn. Take out your rulebook, read under "stomp" - could be read as if you can stomp somebody in base contact with the unit type "infantry"and nothing on "allocated as shooting" . The FAQ is a separate document - and as quoted it makes it pretty clear.
Bloodbeard
Yea I did exactly this mistake in my last game by allocating a stomp based solely on the BRB. I couldn't find anything to say why I shouldn't, but I was having that feeling it wasn't right. And of course the FAQ was where I got the feeling from...
Run him over with a Skullcracker - 2D6 Str 8 will do the job. The Destroyer should also do a lot of damage, best make sure they’re softened up with shooting first though. Searing Doom, Ash Storm, heck even a Fireball will knock some down. They’re only T3 :cheers
x2 blunderbuss shots should kill on average 20 white lions. I am fairly confident that a horde formation of infernal guard will walk over the left overs of that unit.
Would the Iron Daemon tactic be to try to shoot him a couple of times and then hit him with the Daemon?
He’ll find it very difficult to hurt the Daemon but with T8 & 8 wounds he’ll be hitting on 3s but wounding on 6s and I’d get a 6+ save on those wounds. I could further swing this in my favour using Ash Storm for the -1 to hit debuff. Using the Daemon to pin the White Lions in place I could then hit with Fireborn / Renders to swing things my way.