Bull Centaurs are a stable mutation created by Hashut thousands of years ago. They represent more traditional aspects of Chaos Dwarf society - they’re elite, proud, arrogant temple guardians. If you can accept the existence of Chaos Dwarf religion and Hashut then they work with that side of the background.
Personally, I prefer that side of Chaos Dwarfs: the brooding temples and vast ziggurats, unfathomable ancient rites and mysterious priests. I think a powerful empire across the mountains with all these strange rituals and bizarre styles of architecture and dress is more interesting than big cannons.
This is one thing me and Thommy disagree on, I’m against Bull Centaurs though I try not to open the discusion in peoples threads so it doesn’t take over someone elses topic, please don’t take this as something rude but I’ll be posting my own centaurs at some point so will gladly talk about it there.
The great thing about this army (for me) is nothing is really official any more, Ravening Hordes is a great resource to use but more than a little out-of-date and the crazy marauder style mutated chaos worshipping mo-fo’s that I like are even more old and out-of-date again :rolleyes:. The new metal binding masked image which you seem to be leaning towards is a hint into what GW might be thinking but again, besides hellcannnon crew, isn’t official. You can do what ever you like
Your idea of a jugger seems pretty cool, will have to see some pics though, to be sure it’s a good idea
There are other ways to represent the BC concept than the GW idea. If you’re struggling with the concept, I would say play around with the idea of them being the only chosen and mutated unit in our list. Fit a bull theme somewhere in there and you’ll get it right! Could be horns, 2 bull legs, 4 bull legs etc.
Grafting living bodies onto machines is really radical stuff! But probably too directly a copy of Clan Moulder.
I suppose it depends on how you see the religion and the engineering stuff meshing. I’ve always pictured them quite separately, with the Sorcerer Lords being a sort of conservative oligarchy who look down on the tinkering of their acolytes. Young Sorcerers playing around with summoning daemons and building cannons and other machines is a kind of youthful exuberance: a way of creating new machines for the armies, but also of perfecting certain magical techniques. Once they get older and master new magics, they move away from artillery and embrace the arcane fury of Hashut instead. A “true” Sorcerer doesn’t need to build a machine to hurl fire and death at the enemy…
That’s just how I blend old fluff with new though. Bull Centaurs become the enforcers of the old guard, the real traditionalists of Chaos Dwarf society who have no truck with artillery - this fits their role on the battlefield too (since a cavalry charge is the exact opposite of sitting at the back of the table and shooting) and also (perhaps coincidentally) their place in the army list: they compete for Rare slots with the Earthshaker.
I don’t see why Chaos Dwarfs have to be only one thing. The Empire has their cannon and handguns but also warrior priests and flagellants. Orcs have comedy Gobbos but also dead serious Black Orcs. Skaven have dark science but also pestilence and slavery as distinct themes.
Very cool zsoulless! Looks like you can draw fast as well as incredibly well!
I’d kinda like to see some more Hashut symbols though too…
And I can’t wait to see more…
And our army is in flux right now…the studio has mentioned bringing them back, and the basica line was something in line with teh hellcannon crew look…but I think that is one of the good things about our army right now…we can have someone who does them as basically chaos worshippers, we have sme who highlight the machineries of destruction and possesed daemons turned into soul machines, and we have “old school” hashut worshippers with Bull Centaurs being the temple guardians. And even some “older school” norse type of outcast dwarfs. So you can really go with what you want…and with your great art, you’ll inspire people even if they have a different view…so thanks for posting…please keep it up.
And tlak to Willmark or Servius about Word of Hashut!
If you’re looking for a new take on BCs, why not take a more minotaur approach, rather than just a 50/50 mix of CD and Bull. Perhaps Hashut has twisted them even further and so take on more bull features, so rather than a CD head, they have a bull’s head or a more bull-like head: elongated snout, etc. Can still have a dwarf torso/arms, beard, or beard armour, etc.
You could even throw in a mechanical body a la the Juggernaughts, or something. It seems that you don’t want the regular BC look, so maybe you just need to push it in a new direction?
the word Centaur means "a race of creatures composed of part human and part horse"
No it doesn't - I mean, it does, but not in the way you imply. "Taur" is the Latin stem meaning "bull" (like "taurus"). Actually, it's a coincidence: "centaur" comes from the Greek word "�sέν�"α�.ρο�," which means "bull herder" or "bull fighter". The word does indeed refer to mythical human/horse hybrids, but the etymology has nothing to do with horses so, in fact, a half-bull is a better use for the word centaur than a half-horse.
And I think it makes about as much sense as "Chaos Dwarf". Bull Centaur is, no doubt, not a word the Dawi'Zharr use amongst themselves, just the name given by outsiders to this strange and terrifying beast.
Forgive my digression in this thread but I see people dismissing old background quite often on the mistaken belief that it's irreconcilable with what small fragments have come later or that it makes no sense.
Yes, I know what a centaur is. What I’m debating is the implication that the word centaur has anything to do with horses in an etymological sense (like how “werewolf” means “man wolf” or cyclops means “ring eye”).
You’re saying “centaur doesn’t mean bull” but right there in your post you say it means “bull slayer” or “piercing bull”. Ergo, there’s nothing wrong with using the word centaur to describe a creature that’s half-bull. In fact, it makes quite a bit more sense than using it to describe a creature that’s half-horse. That may not be the way the word is usually used, but saying that it can’t be used is like saying that “Dwarf” can’t describe a mythological creature because the word today is understood to mean someone affected by dwarfism.
Furthermore, “centauroid” is fairly commonly used in fantasy and science-fiction to describe a six-limbed creature with quadrupedal hindquarters but a humanoid body (like Zoats). It’s certainly not controversial to apply “centaur” to any six-limbed animal/human hybrid like that because the word centaur doesn’t contain anything that limits it to horses.
What I’m saying is, let’s not get hung up on problems that don’t exist. “Centaur” is a totally fine and accurate word for describing the creature in question. It’s not confusing or illogical in the slightest.
I cant argue with you because we simply are not having the same agruement
Apparently not - I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the future of Chaos Dwarfs. I'm just saying let's not start dismissing the word centaur for no reason. It's just a word, and it's fine for what it describes.
Bull Centaurs (like big hats) didn't kill Chaos Dwarfs, okay? Let's not go mental or anything - draw what you want, man.
First of all, really cool artwork there, and definitely the right attitude! :hat off
I think the masks could be a bit more menacing… right now they look too tame. Chaos Dwarfs would very probably either turn them into spikey, edgy, studded things or graft twisted faces onto them to scare their slaves.
And, don’t forget that chaos dwarfs have to have curly beards! ^^
As a budding concept artist I would have thought you would have gone with the spirit of the brief, rather than the word of it. The fact is that 10 year olds won’t care how much a design lives up to classical mythology and will care about how cool a concept is. The other fact is that the word centaur, much like several other things in classical mythology (eg: chimera, kraken, etc) , is part of modern day lexicon where it has been used to describe things without any relationships to humans or horses - everything from spiders to robots.
The term “bull centaur” conjures up an image in the mind - kinda like a centaur, but with a bull theme. To members of the CD community, it is apparent what it is. It needs to be no more accurate than terms like “dragon ogre” and “chaos furies” both of which defy regular mythology - its the image that counts.
Is that Bull centaurs like Bigs hats were Extremely Unlikely to return In any future remake of Chaos dwarfs...
I've never heard that specifically. I think there's a general consensus that a new version of Chaos Dwarfs would lack some of the more idiosyncratic elements: various people have said that Greenskins will be gone or, yes, Bull Centaurs, but there's never been anything official. Even the "no big hats" prediction has only just received (guarded) confirmation from a GW source.