Getting ready for bashing together my war machines now…any experiences using the Iron Daemon and/or Skullcracker? I’ve got the bits to make 2 of either, was thinking 1 and 1, or is one considered generally better than the other?
I’ve got my Magma Cannon going, and a Death Shrieker Rocket (besides Blunderbuss Infernal Guard), so wondering if I’m good on the shooting portion, and should just go Skullcracking?
The Skullcracker seems to be a case of costs more, but is more situational and more difficult to pull off. If you don’t get the charge, you won’t benefit from it. With 5 move and no swiftstride it’s just not gonna happen that often (I’ve hoped that we could use the extra d6 move on the charge, but I’m afraid RAW it can only be used in lieu of a march).
Whereas with the cannonade you can blast apart your enemies while leisurely making your way up the board and generally make a nuisance of yourself. It could be argued that, with the extra steam move, that the cannonade can still shoot - it says to use it instead of a march, but also that it can’t march, which might indicate that it doesn’t count as having marched. Pretty much every single iron daemon rule needs a faq 
Yeah I don’t think there’s any doubt here tbh
In fringe cases like these I’d treat it like The Honest Wargamer when he’s TO: When in doubt, pick the less beneficial choice. I’m putting a lot of weight on the Instead in Lumbering Destruction (like I do with again in Traveling Mystical Pathways). The D6 is just how marching is done for the Iron Daemon, with all its consequences.
Guess I’ll bust out my cluster of cannon bits to make an Iron Daemon first then. Thanks for the feedback!
So after Marching, we cannot charge, correct? Testing my rules memory now…
Yes, either you charge or you march.
I have been pondering this a bit, and it doesn’t say that using this extra D6 movement ‘counts as having Marched’ or ‘counts as Marching’. Doing something instead of another thing, doesn’t make the something into the other thing. I think RAW this would actually permit the Iron Daemon to use the Lumbering Destruction and then shoot. And this is actually fair and balanced because there is a risk of just not moving at all if you roll a 1. And it would be able to do so without taking a Leadership check within 8" of an enemy (Enemy Sighted rule).
Yes, we just had this convo in this thread
Iron Daemon charging question.
Extra move of D6" is not marching so how it works during a charge?
5"+D6" (optional) +2D6 (higher works)?
Second question about Impact Hits AP value. Can not find it anywhere.
There is no extra D6“ when charging and there’s nothing in the rule even supporting it. Charing is 5“ + the higher of 2D6 as normal.
Impact hits have AP-2 because it’s a heavy chariot.
The only thing for certain is that all the iron demon’s movement rules are a big mess.
The decision to march is made in the remaining movement sub phase. But since marching is not allowed we can instead of it under risk add a +d6 modifier to the movement characteristic.
(Is this true, can someone confirm that the intention which movements a unit should do are made in the subphases, otherwise the +d6 could be applied in the beginning of the movement phase and a modifier is a modifier like demonic vigor, the instead could just be "I take something from you but give you something else.)
That’s all and we can have a increased movement for normal moves and therefore we are allowed to shoot.
That is the consensus, yes
5"+D6" with shooting - yes. This is not marching.
What about charging?
That is the point.
The rule for maximum charge range:
“A unit’s maximum possible charge range is determined by adding six (the highest possible result of an unmodified Charge roll) to its current Movement characteristic (taking into account any modifiers that might apply to its Movement characteristic).”
So it includes movement modifiers. And lumbering destruction is a modifier. In a FAQ it needs to be answered when will this modifier be applied and how long does it last.
Currently some believe it should be the remaining movement sub phase, because of the coupling of the inability to march and the word instead in the lumbering destruction rule and the comparison between the steam tank rules and lumbering destruction (those are a bit different because the negative effects are part of a second rule instead of the rule that prohibits marching and gives the modifier)
I was playing the other day and we talked the charge range from a Daemon and I was told that +D6" is a Movement Characteristic modifier (not Movement modifier) so I can add D6" when charging. Like Steam tank.
Some people think this, and RAW may support it with some selective interpretation. I argue no +d6 on charge based on two definitions in the rules:
I also looked at the steam tank, which have pretty much the same rules, only more unreliable. What is the empire prayers’ consensus on this?
I propose that an iron daemon charging up to 17" is a bit preposterous.
Completely agree with Vacationist.
I’ll add this: What is the max charge range of the Iron Daemon then? You know, the Movement + 6 (and another +3 if you have Swiftstride) you need to be in in order to declare a charge in the first place.
I believe my group plays Steam Tanks like mentioned. With Extra move during charge. Still not sure how they do calculate the maximum charge range…
Then stick with the rule we have: Lumbering Destruction. Does not say charge move but mentions marching.
(and didn’t you bring up the Steam Tank with its different rule and want to draw conclusions from it for the ID?
Exactly, because it does not apply to charge moves.
Do not forget that, the maximum charge range definition takes modifier to the movement if they apply the moment you want to perform charge into account. This does not mean that lumbering destruction is a movement modifier that is in action during the charge decision. Which is the overall question here: in which sub-phase is lumbering destruction invoked and how long does it last.