Iron Daemon Hellbound upgrade. I always cut it for other things last moment. 35 points for terror, re-roll and Ward 6+ feels ok but I never used it before. So many other ways to spend those 35 points…
What is Your opinion on this upgrade on ID?
3 Likes
Same as you I guess. It has only upsides for the Iron Daemon, that’s good and immediately makes it better than on any other war machine (where I don’t even consider it, really), but it’s an upgrade I would trade first for something else if I needed the points.
2 Likes
If you are taking the lammasu banner i wouldnt bother with the upgrade. The tank is dear enough as it is!
Points are so tight for us, there is always something lacking. It still seems a pretty strong army regardless
3 Likes
Tbf, that 6+ Ward for me is the least reason anyway for the upgrade. Terror and magical attacks are always useful, but Hellbound really is the only way to get even one re-roll on the Artillery Dice per game - and that can be a crucial one.
3 Likes
That is why I think hobgoblins is the way to go. You can get a LOT of efficient bodies on a table. I am supper happy with cutthroats with khan (40) and a single unit of Sneaky Gits. The second one will work even better if I add 2-3 additional units. There is too much targets to deal with at once and they are a solid fighting force too. As long as they do not get to take a Panic tests 
LAmassu banner is great. One problem is its cost. You can go elite with i.e. 2 Iron Daemons and then it is a great choice. But when You take cheaper units I would not bother. It is better to get another 40 models than a BSB with a ward.
3 Likes
Hellshard on Deathmask in a unit with razie standard. Do I get -3AP when exploding and Rolling 6 to wound?
2 Likes
Yes, the unit gains the special rule for all weapons.
3 Likes
I wasn’t sold on the irondemon’s upgrade until I realized it had magical attacks which helps a lot with the toolbox. In my current army the only magical attacks are my sorcerer and the irondemon, and a ruby ring.
4 Likes
This is a good rule. Terror (great with Daemonology), ward (+1W on average) and magical attacks.
1 Like
What should we prioritize when fighting gunlines and how to protect our flyers or Iron Daemon? Any ideas?
I have empire gunline with demigyphs in my mind. 3 Cannons + steamtank + troops of archers+ counter punching knigjts and gryphs.
Balista Has the best chance to would cav but tania and Cannons feels nice targets too…
1 Like
A Bale Taurus prophet can tear down a stank in a few turns.
Ofc use the terrain to obscure line of sight as much as possible. Cannons can’t target the ground behind a unit, even if it can see a large target (they can only target the target’s base), so we can use this to our advantage when moving up the board.
You can also take advantage of the rectangular base, to make it more difficult for the enemy to hit you with cannons, by having it be perpendicular to the cannon.
Archers don’t have (not) nothing on us.
Knights are weak ass, and I found that demigryphs go down to steam cannonade shots and a timely bull centaur charge.
The dreadquake is absolutely fantastic at hamstringing the knights, too.
4 Likes
Elementalism helps against shooting heavy lists:
- Earthen Ramparts grants 5+ Ward Save
- Elemental Spirit vortex completely blocks line of sight (and that includes large targets)
Then of course Ashen Banner, Ash Storm and Lammasu’s Beard.
Also our war machines (i.e. Deathshrieker and especially Dreadquake have a much better chance of killing their war machines with a single shot than vice versa.
4 Likes
Unless they are on a hill. Which was the case this gamę.
I used this list:
++ Characters [799 pts] ++
Sorcerer-Prophet [305 pts]
(Darkforged weapon, Heavy armour, Level 4 Wizard, General, On foot, Lore Familiar, Flying Carpet, Elementalism)
Black Orc Warboss [354 pts]
(Great weapon, Full plate armour, Wyvern, Trollhide Trousers, Effigy Of Mork, Enchanted Shield)
Hobgoblin Khan [89 pts]
(Hand weapon, Throwing weapons, Cavalry spear (if appropriately mounted), Shortbow (instead throwing weapons), Giant Wolf, Ruby Ring of Ruin)
Hobgoblin Khan [51 pts]
(Hand weapon, Throwing weapons, Great weapon, Shortbow (instead Throwing weapons), On foot)
++ Core Units [506 pts] ++
5 Black Orc Mob [72 pts]
(Hand weapon, Full plate armour, 3x Shields, 4x Great weapon, 1x Additional hand weapon)
16 Infernal Guard [300 pts]
(Hailshot blunderbluss, Heavy armour, Shield, Drilled (0-1 per 1000 points), Deathmask (champion), Standard bearer)
39 Hobgoblin Cutthroats [134 pts]
(Hand weapons, Shortbow, Boss (champion), Standard bearer, Musician)
++ Special Units [365 pts] ++
Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower [45 pts]
(Bolt thrower, Hand weapons, Light armour)
Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower [45 pts]
(Bolt thrower, Hand weapons, Light armour)
Iron Daemon [275 pts]
(Steam Cannonade, Hand weapons)
++ Rare Units [80 pts] ++
5 Hobgoblin Wolf Riders [80 pts]
(Hand weapons, Cavalry spears, Light armour, Shields, Shortbow, Feigned Flight (0-1 per 1000 points), Reserve Move (0-1 per 1000 points))
Created with “Old World Builder”
[https://old-world-builder.com]
I need up winning by ~1000.
Did not take ramparts spell. Took Plague, teleport, elemental spirits and windblast. Plague won that gamę. Orcs with -6 armour on charge were great.
Ward save could be a good option but I feel lown numer of Rolls vs hight attacks is not ideal to benefit from in.
3 Likes
Also Wyvern with Black orcs took out steam tank. Hobgoblins was unlucky and did just 1 wound out od 80 shots… But Black orcs and Wyvern smashed IT into pieces.
3 Likes
Right, not much to do there, then. If they’re on a hill, chances are that they’re closer to the center line, though, and easier to catch up to.
Isn’t it kind of the same regardless? You’d need a hit with the center hole, and then it’s 4+ to wound, 3+ on multiple wounds?
3 Likes
Mhm yeah that’s fair. In fact, it’s almost the other way around, actually 
I had the strength of Deathshrieker and Dreadquake at 4(8) and not 3(6).
Deathshrieker and Dreadquake need a direct hit (not quite as likely as cannon hit), wound on a 4+, kill on a 3+. Cannon wounds on 2+, kills Deathshrieker on 3+ and Dreadquake on 5+.
2 Likes
One cannon will not kill a DqM in one shot. Now with ogre loader. W6 takes at least 2 cannon hits.
Cannons rarely miss. 10" from the back of target’s base means they hit a lot. Especially with engineer nearby.
DRL and DqM are just way more random. Harder to hit with, D6 wounds instead of D3+1 (another random element) and… More expensive. Sure They force panic test and can strip swiftstride. And You can use DqM without LOS to get quake effect but cannons are just superior in dealing damage as there are not a lot of big infantry blocks to shoot at!
Cannons wound on 2++, we wound on 4+. So 1/3 chance to hit (with engineer re-roll 2/3), 50% to wound and then random D6 wounds.
1 Like
Unfortunately the Ogre Loader only increases the crew‘s wound by 2, not the war machine‘s. Against a shooting attack it remains a T6 W4 war machine.
1 Like
Even worse… You are right. I try to like both machines but I do not feel inspired to paint my DqM (I love the dedicated loader printable model Fabelzel did some time ago).
The crew of a Dreadquake Mortar with an Ogre Loader has +2 Wounds
2 Likes
It’s still an awesome war machine! And in a head to head against a cannon it is very easy to set it up in a way that the cannon just cannot shot it, while the dreadquake can.
1 Like